Mary Matters (Dr. Walter Martin on disbelief in the Mother of God)

Catholic Exchange ^ | JULY 26, 2014 | Tim Staples

[HiTech RedNeck]

The bible itself has to lie for that to be a lie, but this does not excuse being spiritually soft. Most who are serious enough about the bible to believe in that catching-up-in-the-air know enough not to be spiritually soft. If you are spiritually soft you will always be playing rope a dope with the devil and get almost nowhere.

[CynicalBear]

>>Arguing over words and missing the point...<<

The point is the words the Holy Spirit used to convey a message. Intentionally misleading by changing the words He used will not lead to a pleasant outcome.

[CynicalBear]

Why do Catholics always head for that vitriol road?

[Arthur McGowan]

There must be some intellectually honest, intelligent Protestants in the world. There must be many on FR.

But there are none among those who post about Catholicism.

I have never seen so much equivocation, undistributed middles, and question-begging in my life.

I once asked, Are the following syllogisms formally valid or invalid?

Emily is the mother of Sam.
Sam is a fireman.
Emily is the mother of a fireman.

Mary is the mother of Jesus.
Jesus is God.
Mary is the mother of God.

I was attacked by about five of FR’s Mary haters, for using “pagan philosophy,” for trying to lead them “down a rabbit hole,” for trying to use “human logic” in talking about God, etc.

[CynicalBear]

>>Suggest a denomination which you deem to be "Spirit Filled."<<

I didn't say a "denomination". Christ didn't establish "denominations" or organizations. If the teaching can't be supported by scripture get out of there. Salvation is a personal thing. Sincerely ask the Holy Spirit to guide you as you read scripture. Putting your faith in another man or group of men leads to error. Paul commended the Bereans for checking with scripture to see if even he was teaching truth. He didn't say check with some organization.

[metmom]

And because Jesus is God, Mary is the mother of God.

Wrong.

Jesus had a mother.

GOD has none.

The term *mother of God* is a fabrication of man, a fallacy that says something different than *mother of Jesus*.

The Holy Spirit picked His words for a reason.

[metmom]

God chose Mary above all women to bear His son.

That's right. She had the right blood lines and lived in the right time and place for prophecy to be fulfilled.

It had nothing to do with her intrinsic character. That was fabricated centuries later when someone decided that she needed to be sinless.

[CynicalBear]

Just making the comparison terycarl. All false religions rely on something other than scripture alone. Something added. Additional revelation. A new apparition. Each one looks to something that isn’t found in scripture or that wasn’t taught by the apostles. The list of those that do that includes Catholics, Mormons, and Muslims.

[CynicalBear]

And Catholics call others heretics. Wow!

[metmom]

We honor her as we do our own mothers.

You have statues of her in your house?

You light candles before her and pray to her and bow down before her statue?

[metmom]

Mary and Grace

The word grace used in this passage in Luke is used in one other place in the Bible and that is Ephesians 1 where Paul is us that with this same grace, God has blessed us (believers) in the Beloved. IOW, we all have access to that grace and it has been bestowed on us all.

http://biblehub.com/greek/5487.htm

Luke 1:28 And he came to her and said, “Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!”

Ephesians 1:4-6 In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

Greek word “grace”

charitoó: to make graceful, endow with grace

Original Word: χαριτόω

Part of Speech: Verb

Transliteration: charitoó

Phonetic Spelling: (khar-ee-to'-o)

Short Definition: I favor, bestow freely on

Definition: I favor, bestow freely on.

HELPS Word-studies

Cognate: 5487 xaritóō (from 5486 /xárisma, "grace," see there) – properly, highly-favored because receptive to God's grace. 5487 (xaritóō) is used twice in the NT (Lk 1:28 and Eph 1:6), both times of God extending Himself to freely bestow grace (favor).

Word Origin: from charis

Definition: to make graceful, endow with grace

NASB Translation: favored (1), freely bestowed (1).

[metmom]

I explain again: The title “Mother of God” has always meant that Mary is the mother of Jesus, and because Jesus is the Second Person of the Trinity, who is God, and Mary is his mother, Mary can be properly called the “Mother of God.”

If you mean that Mary is the mother of Jesus, then just SAY it.

There's no need to change her title, making her into something she isn't.

GOD has no mother, no beginning. Jesus did. Jesus was born. God wasn't.

If you insist that Mary is the mother of God because she's the mother of Jesus, then you are denying Jesus' humanity and falling into the error of modalism.

[I-ambush]

Decades at least. I heard it as a teenager.

[metmom]

You need to ask?

What have I been posting all along?

[1010RD]

Christ didn't establish "denominations" or organizations.

That's completely unbiblical. Christ organized his Church and it functioned as organized after his resurrection.

This assertion is not supported by scripture. Drop it. Get out of there and quick.

[metmom]

Have you read them side by side and compared passages to see if they say the same thing or not?

So, if they use a different word order and say the same thing, do you consider that a *different* interpretation?

So, for Ephesians 2:8 here....

Exactly what difference is there in saying *from* or *of* yourselves? How does that change what is said?

Or is saying *gift of God* as opposed to *gift from God* supposed to make any difference in the meaning?

Is that supposed to be an example of *many and varied interpretations*?

New International Version
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

New Living Translation
God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God.

English Standard Version
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

New American Standard Bible
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

King James Bible
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—

International Standard Version
For by such grace you have been saved through faith. This does not come from you; it is the gift of God

NET Bible
For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For it is by his grace that we have been saved through faith, and this faith was not from you, but it is the gift of God,

GOD’S WORD® Translation
God saved you through faith as an act of kindness. You had nothing to do with it. Being saved is a gift from God.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God,

King James 2000 Bible
For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

American King James Version
For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

American Standard Version
for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Douay-Rheims Bible
For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God;

Darby Bible Translation
For ye are saved by grace, through faith; and this not of yourselves; it is God’s gift:

English Revised Version
for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Webster’s Bible Translation
For by grace are ye saved, through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Weymouth New Testament
For it is by grace that you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves. It is God’s gift, and is not on the ground of merit—

World English Bible
for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

Young’s Literal Translation
for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you — of God the gift,

[metmom]

Preach it, sister!!!!

[1010RD]

All false religions rely on something other than scripture alone.

Nonsense and ahistorical. If true, then the Hebrews would have been right to reject Moses. The Bible is one long continuing revelation and nothing in the Bible definitively states nor can be construed to imply that revelation will end. Quite the opposite.

Christ tells Peter to expect continuing revelation. It comes, most notably via his trance revealing the time to take the Gospel to the gentiles. Look at the same chapter in Acts 10 for Cornelius's experience.

Cornelius' prayers and offerings are acceptable to God. An angel comes to speak to him. Does anyone still read the Bible or do they just stake out a position based on a few snippets?

A person who wants to be a Christian, a follower of Christ, should absolutely expect continuing revelation, angels, ordination, baptism and an organized, orderly church.

[RaceBannon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Osuctvq4QU&index=1&list=PLkoOH05Yvyb2X7N_fecaMkbIXbgB3S1em

[I-ambush]

The teacher’s told our Social Studies class that all prior versions of the bible were in error. This was in 1976 in rural Illinois. I believe she belonged to the Church of Christ, so if your sect doesn’t believe the same, please do not take offense.