The Once-born and the Twice-born

Man: The Dwelling Place of God ^ | Some time ago | A.W.Tozer

[metmom]

I presume that he meant Baptism like the Sacrament initiated by Jesus in the Jordan that forgives original and actual sin.

Could you post the passage that tells us the Jesus instituted baptism that eh Jordan River and told people that it forgives their sin and saves them?

Getting wet doesn't save anyone because it's not the shedding of blood because without the shedding of blood, there is NO forgiveness of sins.

Since water isn't blood, it CAN'T save.

[metmom]

Notice the key part...... not as a removal of dirt from the body

IOW, NOT water baptism.

[metmom]

Baptism doesn’t negate the necessity of faith.

But faith negates the necessity of baptism.

Abraham BELIEVED God and it was credited to him as righteousness.

[metmom]

When you reject the teachings of the Catholic Church, you reject Jesus. Look it up, it is in the Bible.

No, you make the claim, you provide the substantiation.

If you don't, it can be safely presumed you can't.

If you want to be taken seriously, you need to give people more than your say so. Anyone who simply takes the word of an anonymous internet poster as truth is a fool.

Don't be lazy. Don't send someone off to do your work for you. Provide the reference yourself.

[metmom]

Jesus called the cup, *the fruit of the vine*.

The Catholic church claims it’s blood in violation of the entire weight of Scripture.

So who’s making Jesus out to be a liar there?

[Resettozero]

So when they say they are in the faith, that means to them that they are actively practicing Catholics, not that they believe God's promises as found in Scripture and are trusting HIM for their salvation.

This seems to be the case for some RC members who have posted here in times recent and past...and I have understood that.

The RCC has supplanted Jesus Christ and excluded him in Spirit while proclaiming, presumptively, another perpetual victim (dead) Jesus on the crucifix in their abominable rituals that have origins deep in human history.

Many Roman catholics are mindlessly trapped by their church's philosophy which makes many unprovable and anti-Scriptural (blasphemous) claims of RCC usurpation of God's authority and they will defend it to someone's death, as do muslims and other sects.

Today is a good day for everyone prayerfully and humbly reading the New Testament books.

[metmom]

When you reject the teachings of the Catholic Church, you reject Jesus.

I absolutely reject men like this who CLAIM they are stand in's for Jesus.

I reject the corruption and immorality within the ranks of Catholicism.

I reject the downplay of Scripture and the elevation of tradition above it.

I reject the teaching of man-made doctrines that are passed off as truth.

I reject that salvation is by works and not by faith.

Or do you mean to say that all that represents Jesus?

Or men like this? rejecting them is rejecting Jesus? Would Jesus do what these men did?

Top 10 Most Wicked Popes

http://listverse.com/2007/08/17/top-10-most-wicked-popes/

1. Liberius, reigned 352-66 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
2. Honorius I, reigned 625-638 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
3. Stephen VI, reigned 896-89 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
4. John XII, reigned 955-964 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
5. Benedict IX, reigned 1032-1048 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
6. Boniface VIII, reigned 1294-1303 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
7. Urban VI, reigned 1378-1389 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
8. Alexander VI, reigned 1492-1503 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
9. Leo X, reigned 1513-1521 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
10. Clement VII, reigned 1523-1524 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]

Top 10 Worst Popes in History

http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-worst-popes-in-history.php

1. Pope Alexander VI (1431 – 1503)
2. Pope John XII (c. 937 – 964)
3. Pope Benedict IX (c. 1012 – 1065/85)
4. Pope Sergius III (? – 911)
5. Pope Stephen VI (? – 897)
6. Pope Julius III (1487 – 1555)
7. Pope Urban II (ca. 1035 – 1099)
8. Pope Clement VI (1291 – 1352)
9. Pope Leo X (1475 – 1521)
10. Pope Boniface VIII (c. 1235 – 1303)

[Iscool]

Well...Peter would disagree with you. On both points. Actually, in the same sentence:
“Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ” 1 Peter 3:21.

You got the wrong type of baptism here...

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

THIS baptism is a 'like figure' of the baptism you are referring to...It doesn't 'correspond' to anything...

THIS baptism doesn't clean anyone...

THIS baptism is NOT an appeal for anything...THIS baptism is the answer of a good conscience toward God...That is TOWARD GOD, NOT from God...

When you pervert the scriptures, you get a perverted interpretation...

[Iscool]

I noticed no answer to your question.

The members of the One, True Church don't discuss scripture...Apparently they don't know any...

[Resettozero]

Naah. That’s not it in this case. She dislikes me (want to see the FR posts I’ve saved?) and wishes I would just leave Free Republic Religion Forum to her and those who agree with her.

Don’t want to be with her in a kitchen where there are knives.

[Iscool]

The first birth is covered in John 1:13; “Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man..”. No water mentioned as a sign of first birth.

Nope...

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him,
(those of the first birth)
to them gave he power to become the sons of God,
(the 2nd birth)
even to them that believe on his name:

Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Those are of the 2nd birth...

For you position to have any force, you need John 3:6 to read: “That which is born of the water is flesh....”.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

This is a reference back to John 1:13...John 1:13 is certainly not speaking of a natural birth but a spiritual birth...

Anyone who knows anything about a natural birth knows we were conceived and raised in a bag (for lack of a better term) of liquid/water...

So all that works for me...

[Iscool]

Good luck when it comes to Judgement Day. When you reject the teachings of the Catholic Church, you reject Jesus. Look it up, it is in the Bible.

That's pitiful...YOU look it up and show it to us...

[winodog]

Why did the apostles ignore that command?
Acts 8:1 says they stayed in Jerusalem.

[metmom]

*Look it up yourself* = It’s not in there so I can’t show it to you.

Basically, it’s trying to send someone on a fool’s errand.

Lazy at the very least. Dishonest through and through.

[Mark17]

It doesn't say that without baptism there is no salvation. Without the shedding of blood, there is NO remission of sins. Baptism is NOT the shedding of blood.

What a load of something. Water baptism gets you wet, nothing more. If baptism was necessary to be saved, then the thief on the cross was up the proverbial creek. What is that you say? The RCC makes an exception for him? Yeah, right. Not in this lifetime. Water baptism is nothing more than an outward sign of a changed person. I can not believe some of the stuff that tries to pass itself off as truth. My oh my. Cut me some slack.

[ADSUM]

When you reject the teachings of the Catholic Church, you reject Jesus. Look it up, it is in the Bible.

Care to share where this is found in the New Testament?

I should really make you look it up. It has been previously posted to metmom.

There are so many closed minds here that they either do not understand the words of Jesus or does not fit their self analysis intrepetation. There is so much venom posted here about the Catholic Church that it appears to be really self-hatred.

• Man’s ingenuity cannot account for this. The Church has remained one, holy, catholic, and apostolic—not through man’s effort, but because God preserves the Church he established (Matt. 16:18, 28:20).
•
• Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, the popes and the bishops, “He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me” (Luke 10:16). Jesus promised to guide his Church into all truth (John 16:12–13). We can have confidence that his Church teaches only the truth

Luke 10;
16Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me.”

Memom doesn’t believe in the Eucharist or Baptism or other teachings of the church, she doesn’t believe in the words of Jesus.

There are previous postings 55,56,43,38,33 that provide information, but it is ignored.

I really hope that all can find the salvation with the Lord that they seek, but I am not sure that they will find it if they ignore the words and intentions of Jesus.

[Mark17]

Faith in anything or any system other than the Son of Man Who was lifted up...is misplaced.

Reset, calling it misplaced, is sugar coating it. I would say it is downright dangerous and puts one's eternal soul in a very precarious position. Hell is yawning, waiting for all who trust in questionable belief systems, and off the wall religions, and not the only begotten son of God. It's not pretty, but that is reality.

[metmom]

There is so much venom posted here about the Catholic Church that it appears to be really self-hatred.

Projection is really an interesting phenomena.

It reveals what's going on in the mind of the person doing the projection.

Since it's all that they know, they presume everyone else is just like them.....

Hmmmmm......

Nowhere did Jesus say that rejecting the apostles and their successors is rejecting Jesus. He wasn't talking to just the disciples but to all believers.

Nor are we rejecting the writings of the apostles, aka Scripture.

What we do reject is the false claims of authority that the RCC is claiming for itself. We reject unbiblical and unscriptural teachings.

We are to fix our eyes on JESUS, the Author and Perfector of our faith.

Jesus called men to follow HIM, not other men.

We can have no confidence in any organization that calls itself a church is teaching the truth unless it lines up with Scripture.

The seven churches in Revelation 2&3 put that myth to rest.

[ADSUM]

Your comment: Hell is yawning, waiting for all who trust in questionable belief systems,

So you ignore the teachings of Jesus and His Church at your peril.

[Mark17]

Your comment: Hell is yawning, waiting for all who trust in questionable belief systems,

So you ignore the teachings of Jesus and His Church at your peril.

I used to be a catholic, so yes, I thankfully reject the catholic church as a spurious, false religious cult, no better than Mormonism, Kingdom Hall, INC or Quiboloy. If you want to remain in it, that's on you, but people have tried to point out the truth to you. I rather like my chances.