Posted on 01/15/2015 1:30:54 PM PST by daniel1212
I think we should read - prayerfully. For one thing, it helps the individual rightly divide what they are reading.
It’s what keeps me from gouging my eye out.
They make the claim that the bible has been retranslated so many times that it would be impossible to take serious but then judge the ones who believe in it according to what it says?
Is your earthly father in you, giving you all power?
No he is not. But that doesn’t negate my point that the Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father.
Two persons, both are God.
Having someone “in you” doesn’t make you that person.
Jesus Christ is in me, but that doesn’t make me Jesus Christ. The fact the Father is in Jesus, doesn’t make Jesus the Father.
there is a reason the Church rejected modalism in the third century and that there was no “Oneness” church prior to the 20th century. but the Scriptures warn in the latter days false prophets will rise and fool many.......
does Jesus Christ exist today?
does the Father exist today?
does the Holy Spirit exist today?
I firmly disagree! "Does not die" and "is not quenched" within Mark 9:43-48 denotes continuity, not a terminus, while this is used in 3 different cases to teach that it would be rational to cut off the offending member rather than die with them and end up going to a place in which the worm dies not and the fire is not quenched.
The Lord was not teaching annihilation at the end of a sinful life, which hardly provides much of a deterrent effect. A rational hedonistic soul would easily reason that it would be worth it to live a life of around 70 years satisfying his lust and then be burned up.
In addition, God knows how to get across what He wants to teach, and eternal torment is what many other text most clearly are meant to convey. Rather than correcting the understanding that the lost will face eternal torment, the Lord only affirms it.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: (Matthew 25:41)
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (Matthew 25:46)
Everlasting punishment has its parallel in contradistinction to life eternal, while the devil suffers eternally:
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)
The early church had no “bible”. And many of these “books” did not even exist for quite a while after the death of Jesus. Nobody needs this stuff to be saved. One is saved by accepting Christ as their savior and acknowledging him before men..The stuff in our modern bible is helpful, no doubt, but not necessary. Especially when there is something MORE valuable: Prayer.
Fallacious superficial reasoning. The early church certainly did have a “bible,” a body of texts which they abundantly referenced to, as the word of God/the Lord was usually written, even if first being oral, and the NT church established His Truth claims upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power, (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.)
Thus what the NT heard was dependent upon what was written, and much of what what they heard was in written form first, or was written subsequently.
Before there was a written word then God expressly revealed himself to a limited degree thru men of God who were established as being so due to their qualities and attestation, as writings of God essentially were.
But as written, Scripture became the transcendent supreme standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims as the wholly Divinely inspired and assured, Word of God. As is abundantly evidenced
And which testifies (Lk. 24:27,44; Acts 17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23, etc.) to writings of God being recognized and established as being so (essentially due to their unique and enduring heavenly qualities and attestation), and thus they materially provide for a canon of Scripture (as well as for reason, the church, etc.)
One is saved by accepting Christ as their savior
True, but contrary to the imagination many RCs convey, the Lord and the church did not establish their Truth claims upon the premise of ensured veracity, though Christ alone on earth certainly possessed that, but as said, such were est. upon Scriptural substantiation.
The stuff in our modern bible is helpful, no doubt, but not necessary.
That is absurd, as what is in the Bible today was not and is superfluous as you render it, but is what the Lord gave to His people as necessary (even for what was preached).
Especially when there is something MORE valuable: Prayer.
Wrong. Prayer is valuable because their is a Being to pray to. But just what or who defines who to pray to? Mormonic legends? Your own opinion, or a worthily established source of Divine revelation?
I was listening to Jude for the third consecutive time on one of my commutes, trying to reconcile it to the words of Jesus as well as Paul and suddenly asked myself, “who the heck is this guy and why do I consider his words scripture? And guess what? Turns out that book is, in fact one of the disputed books of the Canon.
Which was one of many, while it turns out that a certain itinerant Preacher from Galilee, as well as one before Him in the desert, were disputed as being what was claimed of them. But both men and writings of God were established by overall consensus as being so due to their supernatural qualities and attestation, which est. Jude as well.
And which manifests a conflative and complimentary character with the rest of Scripture. If you do not see it then it is likely due to the superflous status you afford Scripture.
**No he is not. But that doesn’t negate my point that the Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father.**
I have never said that.
**Two persons, both are God.**
The only God there is,...is IN Christ. God is a Spirit. The Father is ‘God the Father’. The Son is the ‘Son of God’. That’s the way Jesus Christ and the apostles define the two.
**Having someone “in you” doesn’t make you that person.**
I have never said that either. That’s your incorrect understanding of the Godhead. God the Father is the source of all things divine. The Son is ‘of’ the Father. The Father is not ‘of’ the Son. While I’m pointing out the ‘source’, the Holy Ghost is ‘of’ the Father. Jesus Christ and the apostles never used the phrases ‘God the Son’ or ‘God the Holy Spirit’. I believe them not your church of ‘three Gods’.
The apostles KNEW the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, and therefore baptized in the name of Jesus. I believe them. As far as I know, your church does not.
**there is a reason the Church rejected modalism in the third century and that there was no “Oneness” church prior to the 20th century. but the Scriptures warn in the latter days false prophets will rise and fool many.......**
Modalism is not a very good description of what ‘oneness’ means. The fact that you can’t really answer my positions on the Godhead, and baptism (just attack what you THINK I believe), just shows me that you are not rightly dividing the Word.
Jesus Christ said ‘few there be that find it’. Paul, Peter, and Jude, all said that false teachers were present even in their day. The ‘few there be that find it’ have always been present through the centuries. The 20 century simply enjoyed the coming of mass communications, and therefore ‘the few there be that find it’ are noised about much more than before.
On Pentecost, the devil immediately saw how the name of Jesus was used in baptism for the remission of sins. Do you honestly think he didn’t set about the have the NAME removed?
That’s what happens when all one does is repeat a command (Matt. 28:19), and not OBEY it as the apostles did: (Acts 2:38; 8:12,16; 10:48; 19:5).
Did Jesus Christ inherit his name? If so, who from?
**does Jesus Christ exist today?
does the Father exist today?
does the Holy Spirit exist today?**
The Son of God exists today in the Father, who is an omnipresent Spirit.
God the Father exists today IN the Son, who has a soul (like you and me).
The Holy Spirit (which proceeds from the Father) exists today.
I believe them not your church of three Gods
When you must misrepresent what your opponent says and believes in a debate, it is proof of the weakness of your position or ignorance ( or both )
**When you must misrepresent what your opponent says and believes in a debate, it is proof of the weakness of your position or ignorance ( or both )**
When you don’t answer the debate questions (or at least some of them), it is proof of the weakness of your position or ignorance (or both).
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