Posted on 12/25/2014 12:25:15 PM PST by Jan_Sobieski
“Mary wasn’t nor could she ever be our Savior”
Correct:
Luke 1:46-47
“And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.”
Is that two-ply TP???
Not that Mr. Whipple would be surprised if it were the cheap stuff... hehehe
Well, Obama is “A” Son of a Bitch, so I can see where his confusion begins.
when I read this, I immediately thought: GEE—Obama is a “percy jackson” fan.
So Jesus was a “demigod”?
No. That is the Arian heresy. The modern variation of this heresy is seeing Jesus as having Christ consciousness inside him and that he was teaching us to get Christ consciousness inside us also, if we buy their tapes for $89.99 or attend their conferences at 500 dollars a pop.
“Why do people say that Catholics believe that Mary is our savior, when NO Catholic has ever believed that?”
It’s from the Catechism. However if Christ is the one being accepted as Savior then that’s refreshing to hear.
Catechism 491:
“Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, “full of grace” through God, was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854:
The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin.”
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p122a3p2.htm
Better read that again......the catechism teaches that Jesus is the Savior of the human race, not Mary.
But something tells me you knew that already, right?
“The Word became flesh. I.e., the Word began to be the act of existence of a human nature. The material for the flesh came from Mary, precisely as the flesh of any child comes from its mother’s body.”
Matthew 1:18New International Version (NIV)
18 This is how the birth of Jesus the Messiah came about[a]: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit.
Pregnant though the holy spirit, but not of human flesh. While Jesus was carried by Mary in human terms she would be considered a surrogate mother. Joseph and Mary adopted Jesus much like us gentile believers have been adopted into sonship, Ephesians 1:5. Actually from a biology stand point the flesh doesn’t come from the mother’s body. Nutrients are passed through the placenta into the baby and it grows its own flesh.
God is Spirit and Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit. Through the Power of God his Son became human flesh and blood not because of some sinful human.
“Mary became the mother of the Word-made-flesh at the instant of conception—not at His birth, exactly as every woman becomes a mother at the instant of her child’s conception, not at his birth.”
John 4:24 New International Version (NIV)
24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
While I agree with the instant conception part she became the mother of the flesh, but God gives us our Spirit thus the Spirit only has one maker “God”.
“The title “Mother of God” means only this: that Mary is the mother of the Person who is the Word-made-flesh, who is the Second Person of the Trinity.”
Matthew 15:11New International Version (NIV)
11 What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.”
Mother of the flesh, but not the person. Our Spirit makes us who we are.
“The title never meant that Mary is our savior! Nor did it ever mean that Mary is the origin of the Second Person of the Trinity from eternity!”
If you say so
“The title means only that because Mary is the mother of a Person who is God, she may be called “Mother of God.”
See above you just re-worded it.
“Just as, if Emily is the mother of Sam, and Sam is a fireman, Emily is the mother of a fireman.”
Sure because flesh of flesh and genetics of genetics, but comparing a fireman to God is hardly accurate.
“As for Mary’s being the mother of all of us: Saint John tells us that Jesus said to John, “Son, behold your mother,” and to Mary, “Mother, behold your son.”
1 Timothy 5:8 New International Version (NIV)
8 Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
So because Jesus was obeying the commandments, that makes Mary the mother of us all?
“The gospel does not engage in chit-chat. “Wasn’t that nice of Jesus to provide for his mother?” There is always a spiritual truth involved—one that involves US.”
Not really sure what your point is?
“On the cross, Jesus is giving birth to the Church. The water and blood that flow from his side represent the water of Baptism and the blood of the Eucharist—the two primary sacraments—the sacraments of initiation—i.e., the two sacraments that create a Christian.”
1 John 1:7 New International Version (NIV)
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
No, the birth of the Church was at Pentecost, Acts 2:1-13. The Blood of Christ is for the forgiveness of sins NOT the Eucharist. The Eucharist represents the body which was broken for our transgressions not the blood. You do know that the word sacraments are Latin and the NT was written in Greek which has no such word? Sorry but no sacrament makes a Christian, only the belief in Jesus Christ makes a Christian.
1 Corinthians 3:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Romans 10:8-10 New International Version (NIV)
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
“Hanging on the cross, at the very moment that He is bringing into being His BODY on earth—the Church—Jesus gives Mary to the Church as our mother, and us to Mary as her children. Mary is our mother because the flesh of the body of Christ was taken from her body, and we are now the body of Christ.”
Your whole statement is made up there is absolutely no Scripture that claims any of it.
“Why do people say that Catholics believe that Mary is our savior, when NO Catholic has ever believed that?”
You pray to here and our only mediator is Jesus Christ, so you must think she has some divine power. IAW the post above your Catechism does.
“Why do people say that Catholics worship Mary, when EVERY Catholic knows that doing so would be the sin of idolatry?”
You bow, kiss, pray, and crown many statues of her so yes you do indeed worship her. You can talk all you want, but I see proof every single day in Catholic business, homes, and on cars.
“The reason must be that people are being taught slanders against the Catholic Church, in order to keep them from inquiring about what it actually teaches.”
The real reason is that you live by the words of the catechism and not by the words of the Bible.
“No Sola Scripture right”? Just like the Church of Thyatira you have been given a chance to repent, but you refuse.
Are you telling me that you interpret the above paragraph as saying that Mary is the "Savior of the human race."
Your mode of discussion is to take each sentence, and follow it with the negative possible spin on it, or to distort its meaning beyond recognition, and then move on to the next sentence. Cut-and-paste, cut-and-paste, cut-and-paste. That’s not discussion; it’s just flaming.
Just to point out your most grievous error:
It is the rankest sort of heresy, from a Protestant as well as Catholic view, to say that Jesus Christ is some sort of entirely heavenly being, who merely occupied the womb of Mary, or that the flesh of Jesus Christ did not come from his mother, or was “not human flesh.” To say that is to deny the Incarnation, which is to deny our salvation.
Mary was told by the angel that she would “conceive a child,” not that some alien being would occupy her womb.
Jesus gave the care of the Biblical Mary to John before he died. Like a good son He made certain his mother would be cared for....and that John saw her as part of his family. That's it. However Catholics like to do “add ons” which is why I say the mary they worship is not the Mary of the Bible.
The Mary of the Bible was a sinner saved by Grace. She gave birth to the Savior Jesus as it is written and as it was prophesied. As Christians we rejoice in 'His' birth...and we recognize who his parents were.
No one who is a committed believer in Christ would possibly say that.
Only someone pretending to believe would call Jesus “a Son of God.”
It would be like saying Hercules was a son of Zeus.
If you haven’t seen this, here is what Obama really thinks about Christian scripture. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi-V_ilJu0w
For example:
[Galatians 4:4] But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
[5] To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
[6] And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
[7] Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.[Ephesians 1:4] According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
[5] Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, [...][Romans 8:14] For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
[15] For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
[16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
[17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
[...]
[29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.[1 John 3:1] Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
[2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Even so, the doctrine must also be correctly understood and stated. For example, Jesus is still unique, the "only begotten" Son of God; Christians are adopted.
Because of the possibility of confusion or misunderstanding, I'd want to avoid certain wordings. For example, referring to Jesus as "the Son of God" is more sound than referring to Jesus as "a son of God" (as if Jesus and various Christians were all at the same level).
The sorry SOB claims to be a Christian. Someone should ask him where in the Bible does Jesus approve of sodomite “marriage” and murdering the unborn?
heh, thanks for that. :-)
Agreed! He has already revealed what he believes...if he has deepened, it is in “his” understanding, not the Bible’s understanding
“...so it is difficult to talk scripture with them. You may be using the same words, but they will have different definitions.”
Forget JW’s for a moment...this describes the Religion Forum on FR! We each imagine OUR definitions are the correct ones. Sometimes they actually are. Other times...
“IMHO, he is just one more nobody setting the stage for the bad guy.”
Who, in turn, ends up as an ultimate nobody!
“And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to NOTHING by the appearance of his coming.”—2 Thess. 2:8
We are definitely headed this way. The antichrist will be worshiped as “a god” like these Hollywood godmen and superheros.
Is that catholic doctrine or mcgowan doctrine?
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