Magical Thinking in the Orthodox Church

http://blogs.ancientfaith.com/nootherfoundation/magical-thinking-orthodox-church/ ^ | December 8, 2014 | Fr. Lawrence Farley

[redgolum]

We did (or rather my bride and her mother did). The bishop didn't care.

I did get to debate him over coffee one night. Great fun. I am an old school LCMS Lutheran, and read theology and history for fun.

Started with the 7 Councils (which he thought were not binding) and gave up around Gregory the Great if I remember. The priest is convinced he is right, and more compassionate than “fundamentalists”.

My bride thought it was very funny.

She now attends a church in the Peoria diocese. The priest there isn't a bit of an odd fish, but very orthodox and caring (he likes to restore late 70’s Jaguar's).

[redgolum]

Many of them, it seems especially the ones who go on to become priests in some jurisdictions, can be described as suffering from a sort of spiritual PTSD. They can be dangerous.

I have seen that before also (convert disease). Which is why I think that a priest or pastor converting should not be given sole run of a parish for a bit. Not always possible I realize. It is often better to have him with an older pastor/priest who has been (to quote a Western phrase) to a few Rodeo's and a goat rope. Tends to calm them down.

The issue that my bride ran into (and I think it is common on Catholicism) is that the laity have very limited recourse in situations like this. The bishop doesn't care, he is trying to rebuild the Diocese after a large sex abuse scandal a few years ago. Many in the parish either say the rosary through the service or go to the diocese across the river. They have petitioned the bishop about this priest (and others like him, he is by no means alone) for years. But he teaches at a local university, always shows up for mass, and has had a clean record with the law. The formation of the faith isn't even a concern, let alone if the priest is by denying the Incarnation a rank heretic.

[Kolokotronis]

“The issue that my bride ran into (and I think it is common on Catholicism) is that the laity have very limited recourse in situations like this.”

That is one of the main, let us say practical, differences between Orthodox and Latin ecclesiology.

[Romulus]

Sacred Meal is pretty far down on the list of things the Catholic Mass is. Aren’t you forgetting Somebody?

[redgolum]

One of the things that has always fascinated me is the split of ecclesiology that happened after the Western Empire fell apart and my ancestors wandered in to pick up the pieces.

The East had a strong Empire during this time frame, though the Church was present outside its borders as well. The West had no real Empire till Charlamange decided to play lets pretend, so the Pope could consolidate power easily.

I often wonder what might have happened has Belisarus been successful in retaking and then holding the Roman West. The germanic tribes coming in were not all opposed to the Empire, many had served in it and quite a few had risen in the ranks to positions of respect and power.

Would the West’s ecclesiology gone the path similar to Russian Orthodox? Was a form of Papal supremacy going to happen because of the language barrier no matter what? Just things of which I amuse myself with.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Article: It is undoubtedly true, however, that we are unlike our Protestant friends in one important respect: we define ourselves by the Fathers, and at least pay them lip service, even when we veer off in directions which cause them to spin in their patristic graves. We have to at least pretend we are faithful to the Fathers, even when we aren’t. (Part of the trick here is to denounce fidelity to the Fathers as “patristic fundamentalism”, or as a simplistic reading of the Fathers.)

Kolokotronis: The author is a convert priest from Anglicanism. They are an odd bunch, so many of these convert priests. They carry terrible baggage into Orthodoxy with them. They know all the rules, or what they think are rules, but sadly and even after many years, never come to understand Orthodoxy or our Orthodox phronema. It’s not magical thinking, it’s our mindset, our particular worldview.

[sarcasm]The heretic! Interpreting the church fathers "literally" when the ordinary laymen of the world know that they were just espousing the mistaken science of their time!

This idiot should never have been allowed to convert. He may not even believe in evolution! He must be excommunicated!!![/sarcasm]

[cloudmountain]

Sacred Meal is pretty far down on the list of things the Catholic Mass is. Aren’t you forgetting Somebody?

HIS Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity ARE the the Sacred Meal, the "Somebody." If you were Catholic you would know that.

God bless you.

[cothrige]

Convert disease.

Convert disease? Interesting phrase which I have not previously heard, but from your post it seems to refer to a concept I come across quite often in the Catholic Church. Cradle believers very often see converts as being somehow less tuned into the proper way of thinking. I have never found this to be so personally. Though I did work for a time with a born and raised Italian Catholic woman who once told me that we, meaning Catholics, definitely do not believe that Jesus is God. She seemed pretty tuned in for certain. It has always struck me as a rather comforting thought that cradle believers are somehow a little better than those who have often given up so much in the world to be in the Church, but it must be short lived. After all, at some point it is likely to occur to people that the apostles were all converts.

[Romulus]

You seem to think the Mass is all about you. You’re wrong.

The Mass is a Holy Sacrifice — a word missing from your post, I believe — offered to the Father. It’s the Mass even if no one is there but the priest.

[cloudmountain]

You seem to think the Mass is all about you. You’re wrong. The Mass is a Holy Sacrifice — a word missing from your post, I believe — offered to the Father. It’s the Mass even if no one is there but the priest.

You've decided to interpret what I wrote in the worst possible way. I've obviously not going to get anywhere with you. So be it. I won't bother you any more.
God bless you and yours.