All Souls, Purgatory and the Bible

Da Mihi Animas ^ | November 2 2014

[NYer]

Ping!

[RoosterRedux]

The concept of purgatory flies in the face of the sufficiency of the Blood of Christ.

It is an insult to the Cross.

Luke 23:43

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Why didn't this man, crucified next to our Lord, go to purgatory?

[Biggirl]

Consider purgatory the suburbs or Heaven. Those souls are on their way home. It is NOT an insult to the CROSS. It CONFIRMS the IMPORTANCE of the CROSS.

[Slyfox]

My sister she is a computer whiz. She married a Jewish fellow and her father-in-law asked her to help him get his prayer list together of all people at his synagogue who have died. She had to input dates of death and extra information for him.

So, not just Catholics pray for the dead. It is an Jewish custom dating back to the Torah.

[Biggirl]

Correction:

Consider purgatory the suburbs of Heaven.

[goodwithagun]

Can we make a pact to ignore the bashers and have a decent discussion about this?

[boatbums]

The practice of praying for the dead actually predates Christianity. In 2 Maccabees 12: 41-45, Judas offers prayers and sacrifices for his fallen comrades to make “atonement for the dead that they might be absolved from their sin.” Some argue that the books of the Maccabees are not inspired scripture. Leaving that argument aside for now, we can at least look at them as historical books detailing accepted pious practices of God’s people some 300 years before Christ. If that is the only place in the Bible where we find any reference to purgatory, many Protestant Christians argue, then that is a weak support for such a practice. Fortunately, we know as Catholics that all of our doctrines are indeed found in the Word of God, as is the doctrine of Purgatory. Hence what follows is a biblical understanding of the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory.

Actually...there IS no place in the Bible where "purgatory" is mentioned nor is there any support for what this place that isn't really a "place" exists. The supposed purpose given for why such a place/non-place exists completely negates the well-sourced and Biblically referenced truth that it is JESUS, alone, who is our "place of purgation/cleansing". By faith, it is in HIS blood that we are washed white as snow, justified from ALL our sins, redeemed from ALL penalties for our sin and born again - counted as children of the Living God sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. ONLY by the shedding of blood is there atonement for sin and Jesus shed HIS precious blood to accomplish this.

Whatever "temporal" consequences there are for sins we might commit in this life, no longer can help us be better Christians once we die so there is no reason for God to "get even" with us after our death. No early Christians believed in "Purgatory" and even if some Jewish people believed their prayers and offerings could "help" those loved ones who had died, it is more likely they were thinking of Paradise/Hades (before Jesus' death opened heaven for the redeemed). There STILL isn't anything in the sacred Scriptures that teach such a doctrine nor should Christians invent dogma based on what someone thinks or wants to be true. We have abundant evidence that this has led to abuses, perversions of the gospel and simony.

[RoosterRedux]

I like the way you describe it. I can imagine that is true.

But if the Blood of Christ washes away our sins...why are suburbs necessary instead of a direct connection with our Lord.

One wonders if this isn't merely a medieval concoction to derive revenue from indulgences.

The Lord actually never spoke of such a thing as purgatory. It is a human invention...and I don't trust humans (or myself).

[RoosterRedux]

The truth is a basher isn't it. Even an honest effort to interject the truth is considered bashing, isn't it.

Sounds a lot like islamophobia.

Ignore the truth?

[NYer]

Why didn't this man, crucified next to our Lord, go to purgatory?

He acknowledged Jesus, repented of his sins and hung on a cross ... THAT was his purgatory.

[WVKayaker]

14 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.” ...

[RoosterRedux]

Mat 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and WITH ALL THY MIND.

Mat 22:38
This is the first and great commandment.

i.e. Use thy noggin.

[MeshugeMikey]

temporal disharmonies “...as in SINS?

what are temoral disharmonies of not SIN.

if they are SIN...let us remember that our SINS were what Jesus Died to Cleanse us from

that being said as the sin debt was PAID.....In Advance By Jesus....the concept of “temporal disharmonies” does not figure in into Atoning....Death and RESSURECTION.

Thank you.
They..Our SINS were paid for...ON The Cross.

[cloudmountain]

Our sins are purged since no one goes to heaven with sin on his soul.

This is where the anti-Catholic remarks will flow. I never understood why some non-Catholics here CARE so much about what we Catholics believe. I don't bash or criticize THEIR beliefs. Why can't that courtesy be reciprocated? Isn't it common courtesy on this site? Or is the "opposing" opinion only to be mocked and deprecated?
To me, that's an odd brand of Christianity that I see exhibited.

Oh well, thanks for posting the article!

Whizzzz, SNAP!!

[RoosterRedux]

That's a nice response. I will take that to heart.

But he was hanging there because of his crimes...what of those of us who are repentant yet have not committed such crimes.

We are of course just as guilty but we are also just as repentant.

I know many folks who are hanging on their cross (aren't we all hanging from our Crosses)--good Christians who are ashamed of what they have done and how they have lived.

I still think that purgatory is a human invention...not something spoken of by God.

[FatherofFive]

Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Time is not the same to God as it is to man.

“one day is like a thousand years” 2 Pet 3:8

[RoosterRedux]

Point out such lack of courtesy on this thread.

[Biggirl]

Thank-you for making my Sunday night!

Just put the “bashers” on “mental ignore”. Better yet, make it a Catholic Caucus thread.

[Biggirl]

This is why I am for making such thread Catholic Caucus threads.