Posted on 07/06/2014 3:39:40 AM PDT by HarleyD
You are so wrong. Look here:
"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. "I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. Mat 81:15-18
And here:
“But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” 1Tim 3:15
Pay close attention here – “the pillar and foundation of truth” is a powerful statement. No “denomination” can be the Church that is the foundation of truth. Here Christ says, and Paul reaffirms, that the Church will always teach the TRUTH and will not be destroyed.
So where is the church? Where do you take your concerns? Is it the Church you started last year? This makes no sense whatsoever without the visible Church Christ established with teaching authority, and the power to loose and bind. The ONE that existed from the time of Christ.
Think about it. Would Christ establish his Church – to teach the way, the truth – and allow thousands of interpretation as to what is the truth? If the Church doesn’t teach the Truth, Christ is a liar. If He would allow multiple versions of Truth, he’d be an idiot. I don’t believe He is either.
In the Religion forum, on a thread titled The Reformers’ Hermeneutic: Grammatical, Historical, and Christ-Centered, FatherofFive responded to CB’s claims:
You are so wrong. Look here:
“If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. “I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. Mat 81:15-18
And here:
“But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” 1Tim 3:15
Pay close attention here – “the pillar and foundation of truth” is a powerful statement. No “denomination” can be the Church that is the foundation of truth. Here Christ says, and Paul reaffirms, that the Church will always teach the TRUTH and will not be destroyed.
So where is the church? Where do you take your concerns? Is it the Church you started last year? This makes no sense whatsoever without the visible Church Christ established with teaching authority, and the power to loose and bind. The ONE that existed from the time of Christ.
Think about it. Would Christ establish his Church – to teach the way, the truth – and allow thousands of interpretation as to what is the truth? If the Church doesn’t teach the Truth, Christ is a liar. If He would allow multiple versions of Truth, he’d be an idiot. I don’t believe He is either.
First thank you for confirming that protestants are no Christian, since they are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Second if you read Acts of the Apostles at the council of Jerusalem, you will see....... wait for it..... the first recoded meeting of the Magisterium.
Dang those pesky Catholics reading the Bible and presenting facts that totally shoot down the prot position.
That is like saying, would Christ allow his followers to have diseases that kill them if He is a loving compassionate God? But the answer is, it is not God who sends the diseases, but Satan. God allows the difference in interpretations for His own reasons, one of which may be because He has given man free will, and that, combined with our imperfect sin-nature will mean we are not always right. Then in His great wisdom, God allows us to work out what is the real truth, hopefully we will allow the Holy Spirit to guide our discernment.
If you read the letters to the seven churches in Revelation 2-3, you will find that they are all considered churches with members (early Christians) each is praised for some things and rebuked for other things, some more than others. Thus it is true that these churches had ideas and practices that were in some way wrong, yet The Lord, thru john's words, was telling them to keep striving for perfection. All of these churches made up the body which Jesus called "the Church" (the church universal), the "bride of Christ". They were NOT the Roman Catholic Church. Though later they evolved into the Roman Catholic Church for a long while.
If you study Revelation, you will notice that even though the seven churches that John wrote about were 7 real distinct churches at that time, they also represent seven distinct churches throughout history and there are very profound prophetic messages there.
Do you think that somehow the Roman Catholic Church escaped being a part of this prophetic message in the scriptures? Which of the seven do you think represents the RCC?
1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints.
Matthew 16 Jesus said he would build a Church, not 7 churches, not 10 not 30,000+.
God allows us to work out what is the real truth, hopefully we will allow the Holy Spirit to guide our discernment.
1 Timothy 3:15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
In your scenario what happens to those that are working it out, and come to the wrong conclusion. I am pretty sure God is not Monty Hall telling us to pick from behind curtain 1, 2, or 3, to decide our eternal fate.
Everything we know to be good and true about God has come from the Catholic Church. Not one theological truth has EVER been promulgated by a protestant.
In the Greek which was the language the New Testament was written in “ecclesia” means those called out or an assembly. The “assembly” they were told to bring it to was the local “assembly” of believers not some organized hierarchy. The New Testament church did not have any organization larger than, smaller than or other than the local congregation. The New Testament “churches” were completely independent of each other.
Jesus prohibited His followers from heaping titles of praise upon themselves.
Matthew 23: 5 But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. 6 They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, 7 greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, ‘Rabbi, Rabbi.’ 8 But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ.
Now let’s look at what the Catholic Church says is the origin of the word “church”.
The term church (Anglo-Saxon, cirice, circe; Modern German, Kirche; Swedish, Kyrka) is the name employed in the Teutonic languages to render the Greek ekklesia (ecclesia), the term by which the New Testament writers denote the society founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ. The derivation of the word has been much debated. It is now agreed that it is derived from the Greek kyriakon (cyriacon), i.e. the Lord's house, a term which from the third century was used, as well as ekklesia, to signify a Christian place of worship.
From the Greek word kyriakon which when we look to scripture in how it was used we find that it was NEVER used to denote a group of believers. The Catholic Church has once again perverted the meaning of words used in scripture. Truth is NOT something the Catholic Church is concerned with.
That’s an understandable sentiment coming from an adherent to a pagan organization calling itself a “church”.
>>Apostles at the council of Jerusalem, you will see....... wait for it..... the first recoded meeting of the Magisterium.<<
That was a meeting of the apostles to squelch the encroachment of error many of which have been incorporated into Catholic Church belief. No where in scripture is there such a thing as “apostolic succession.” The apostles were promised by Christ that the Holy Spirit would “bring to their remembrance” what Jesus taught them. No one else can have that promise of “remembrance”. Thus the only source we have for what should be taught is what the apostles wrote. Catholic corruption of those words must be put in the same category as writings by Smith and Mohammad in that they are all corruptions of the true scripture. Catholic quoting scripture is riddled with the error of Rome.
Whine all you like it was a meeting of the first Pope (Peter) and the magisterium (The
Apostles) They decided a matter of faith and acted accordingly.
Whine all you like it was a meeting of the first Pope (Peter) and the magisterium (The
Apostles) They decided a matter of faith and acted accordingly.
LOL Or so the Catholic Church has duped it’s followers to believe.
You are wrong again, and still.
You have been corrected more than enough times. In the OT it meant assembly in the NT it referred to the Church, specifically Catholic Church.
You are entitled to your own opinions, not to your own facts.
The term church (Anglo-Saxon, cirice, circe; Modern German, Kirche; Swedish, Kyrka) is the name employed in the Teutonic languages to render the Greek ekklesia (ecclesia), the term by which the New Testament writers denote the society founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ. The derivation of the word has been much debated. It is now agreed that it is derived from the Greek kyriakon (cyriacon), i.e. the Lord's house, a term which from the third century was used, as well as ekklesia, to signify a Christian place of worship.
Not until the third century did the corruption begin. So please don’t tell me that the New Testament meaning of “ecclesia” meant “church” as the apostles wrote it. Even your own Catholic Church disagrees with you.
The weirdo views you express already brand you as a marginal source, at best.
After all, those few like you claim that Catholics are idolaters, that those who celebrate Easter and Christmas are pagans and who claim that even the idea of church on Sunday is a man made tradition and apparently not either Christian or Biblical are a tiny minority, often not even seen as Christian by many in the real world.
The fact is that you claim ALL organized religions are wrong and that even venerating a simple Cross is pagan. Given that this is the point of view from which you view the world, why should anyone pay attention to your odd, often incomplete and often misread cut-n-pastes?
LOL just pull the trigger already!
Oh that comes from the Catholic encyclopedia per http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm. I told you it was your Catholic Church that made that statement.
>>The weirdo views you express already brand you as a marginal source, at best.<<
ROFL!!!! I quote your own church and it’s a weirdo view now!!!!! You are too much!!!
You make the perfect case for the argument AGAINST Sola Scriptura. You clearly understood neither the cut-n-paste you posted nor my comments. Of course your weird opinions about Easter, Christmas, Sunday worship and organized religion in general already made that case but this is breathtaking in it’s beauty, thank you!
ROTFLMAO!
And thanks for making it clear that you have no expertise in languages, not even the common tongue.
Sola Scriptura? What’s that got to do with Sola Scriptura? How many times do I have to show that the Catholic Church itself agrees with me on many of the things I show you? They just don’t care what God says. It’s interesting to me how defensive and vitriolic Catholics get trying to defend a non Biblical paganism.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.