Orthodox Jewish Website Condemns Judge’s Forcing Circumcision on Gentile

The Jewish Independent ^ | May 19, 2014 | Yori Yanover

[Religion Moderator]

Accusing another Freeper of ignorance is mind reading. It is "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

[LearsFool]

Not questioning your right to moderate as you see best, but FWIW I wasn’t bothered by those remarks.

[the_daug]

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

That is why I think Paul circumcised Timothy, Paul stated that Christ does not disannull the promise.

[LearsFool]

I believe you misread verse 17: There Paul says the law does not disannul the covenant (God's promise to Abraham).

And what is that promise?

"And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed." (3:8)

Gentiles would be justified by faith, not law. And Jews likewise, just as Abraham was justified by faith, 430 years before the Law of Moses. According to v. 7, "they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham."

The law, which came 430 later, could not void the promise. Those who want to bind the law on people as the only way to receive that promise are trying to annul God's promise. As you quoted:

"For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no more of promise: but God hath granted it to Abraham by promise." (3:18)

Paul encountered - and opposed - this false doctrine nearly everywhere he preached.

[POWERSBOOTHEFAN]

At what point in time did the Law of Moses become obsolete? When did G-d’s ETERNAL word become null and void?

G-d’s Word as found in Torah are PERFECT and ETERNAL and are NEVER to be changed.

What part of PERFECT, ETERNAL and NEVER TO BE CHANGED are not understood?

[POWERSBOOTHEFAN]

FALSE!

[RichInOC]

The problem is, of course, unlike in Judaism, when the government gets involved, it’s never, ever just the tip.

[LearsFool]

Did God say He would make a new covenant with Israel or not?

[ErnBatavia]

When my pal in Australia comments on this situation, it’s “Cavalier” versus “Roundhead”.

[editor-surveyor]

Yes, you are always false; nothing new.

[editor-surveyor]

>> “Did God say He would make a new covenant with Israel or not?” <<

Jer.33

[1] Moreover the word of the LORD came unto Jeremiah the second time, while he was yet shut up in the court of the prison, saying,
[2] Thus saith the LORD the maker thereof, the LORD that formed it, to establish it; the LORD is his name;
[3] Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.
[4] For thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, concerning the houses of this city, and concerning the houses of the kings of Judah, which are thrown down by the mounts, and by the sword;
[5] They come to fight with the Chaldeans, but it is fill them with the dead bodies of men, whom I have slain in mine anger and in my fury, and for all whose wickedness I have hid my face from this city.
[6] Behold, I will bring it health and cure, and I will cure them, and will reveal unto them the abundance of peace and truth.
[7] And I will cause the captivity of Judah and the captivity of Israel to return, and will build them, as at the first.
[8] And I will cleanse them from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me; and I will pardon all their iniquities, whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me.
[9] And it shall be to me a name of joy, a praise and an honour before all the nations of the earth, which shall hear all the good that I do unto them: and they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it.
[10] Thus saith the LORD; Again there shall be heard in this place, which ye say shall be desolate without man and without beast, even in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, that are desolate, without man, and without inhabitant, and without beast,
[11] The voice of joy, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the voice of them that shall say, Praise the LORD of hosts: for the LORD is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: and of them that shall bring the sacrifice of praise into the house of the LORD. For I will cause to return the captivity of the land, as at the first, saith the LORD.
[12] Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Again in this place, which is desolate without man and without beast, and in all the cities thereof, shall be an habitation of shepherds causing their flocks to lie down.
[13] In the cities of the mountains, in the cities of the vale, and in the cities of the south, and in the land of Benjamin, and in the places about Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah, shall the flocks pass again under the hands of him that telleth them, saith the LORD.
[14] Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.
[15] In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
[16] In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.
[17] For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
[18] Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.
[19] And the word of the LORD came unto Jeremiah, saying,
[20] Thus saith the LORD; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season;
[21] Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers.
[22] As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply the seed of David my servant, and the Levites that minister unto me.
[23] Moreover the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying,
[24] Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them.
[25] Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;
[26] Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.

[LearsFool]

A beautiful chapter, with a beautiful promise!

In the hopeless days leading up to and during the Babylonian captivity, this promise of God through Jeremiah would give reassurance and comfort. And as we read further in the history of Israel (of Ezra, Nehemiah, Zerubbabel, etc.), we find He kept His promise.

And later we find that He kept His promise to David, and His promise to Abraham, and this promise from Jeremiah 31:31:

"Behold, the days come, saith Jehovah, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah"

[POWERSBOOTHEFAN]

He did but it is not the covenant you Christians think it is.

[GeronL]

forcing circumcision?

That is ridiculous and the judge should be removed from the bench

[LearsFool]

The doctrine you espouse is not new. In Acts 15 we find men described this way by the apostles and elders in a letter to Christians:

"Forasmuch as we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment;"

And that's the aim of this false doctrine - to trouble God's children and subvert their souls. It denies and rejects the Scriptures, and Christ's apostles rejected it and those who espoused it.