Attitudes Among Southern Baptist Leaders Shifting on Birth Control

Associated Baptist Press ^ | 3/5/14 | Bob Allen

[Mrs. Don-o]

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[.45 Long Colt]

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”

—Ephesians 2:8-10

Rome made it very clear at Trent that she doesn’t accept the plain meaning of that verse, ergo she has another Jesus and another gospel. It doesn’t really matter if you recognize what I am saying or not. I have no idea what you believe. I’m taking about what the Roman church has officially declared.

CANON 9: “If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema.”

Despite the clear teaching of the passage above, and others, that canon has never been renounced.

“Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin,” (Rom. 3:20).

“Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,” (Rom. 3:24).

“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law,” (Rom. 3:28).

“For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness,” (Rom. 4:3).

“Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,” (Rom. 5:1).

“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost,” (Titus 3:5).

Bottom line, please stop worrying about how I characterize Rome and learn why I have said she has another Jesus, another spirit and another gospel. I promise I know enough about both the Bible and Romish doctrine to make that statement. Listen to those gospel presentations I have linked many times before and then be a Berean and go to the Word and see if what they say proves true.

I don’t want to argue with you. I am praying for you. Yes, sometimes I am blunt, but I know that I know what I’m talking about. If you lived near Memphis I would love to sit down over coffee and show you and your husband from the Word myself. But since I can’t do that all I know to do is urge you to listen to messages or watch videos that can explain the gospel to you.

The Testimony of a Former Priest
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvID3lRyYIc&feature=relmfu

The Gospel Defined and Discerned
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=81901181950

Unmasking the False Gospel
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1010665821

[Mrs. Don-o]

Focus on "Have Faith" itself: it is expressed as a command, as one of these many, many imperative verbs that come to us from the mouth of God in Scripture. Keep that in mind: imperative verbs. We are ordered, implored, commanded, required, to do this: to have Faith.

What kind of faith? At least three different kinds of faith are distinguished in the scriptures: there is demonic faith, dead faith, and living faith.

Demonic faith: James 2:19
"You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!"

Dead faith:James 2:17
"Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."

James 2:20
"But wilt thou know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?"

James 2:26
"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Then there is living Faith: the faith that incorporates us into Christ in all things. We come to think with the mind of Christ, to love with the heart of Christ, to "be conformed" to Christ, to be "transformed" by the renewal of our minds in Christ, to do the works of Christ --- indeed, He says even greater works:

John 14:12
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father."

And this, finally, is the basis of judgment:

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

But would you set Paul against Paul? Paul asserts Romans 2:6-8 that good works are necessary for attaining eternal life, however little or much we may be capable of doing: "For he will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury."

What exactly did Paul mean, then, when he said we are "justified by faith apart from works of law?"

Note the exact phrase he uses: "works of the Law." What Law? Well, note whom he was speaking: to the "Judaizers," who taught that we all must keep the Mosaic Law, not "getting" that the Mosaic Law has been superseded in Christ (Hebrews 7:11-12).

The Judaizers taught, as well, that Christian men must circumcised in order to be saved (cf. Acts 15:1-2). And that they must keep kosher. And that the Gentiles must all, in effect, become Torah Jews. They were wrong. And Paul had to correct them very firmly on this point.

Paul had these Judaizers in mind when he wrote in Romans 2:28-29, "For he is not a real Jew who is one outwardly, nor is true circumcision something external and physical. He is a Jew who is one inwardly, and real circumcision is a matter of the heart, spiritual and not literal . . . " Paul told us in Colossians 2:11-12 that this true "circumcision of Christ" is baptism.

So Paul was refuting the need for the Mosaic Law --- the old system of circumcision, the bloody sacrifice of bullocks, sheep and goats, the ritual dietary and "separateness" code which required Jews never to intermarry with Gentiles, eat like Gentiles, dress like Gentiles, or even enter a Gentile's house --- this is what Paul is referring to as "works of the Law."

But Paul, like Jesus Himself, says that we must have that living faith, that loving faith, that incorporates us into Christ. And all the many "imperatives" of Scripture make sense. They fall into place. They draw a fuller and fuller picture of what it is to be incorporated into Christ. It means nothing less than to become members of His Body.

Briefly, all of the commands of the whole of Scripture are meaningless if God does not actually require us to "Repent," "Choose", "Obey," "Come," "Love," "Follow", "Keep the commandments," "Have Faith," "Take and eat," "Take and drink," "Do this," "Watch," "Pray," "Work," and all those other imperative verbs of which I could find dozens.

It's all about incorporation into Christ, being one Body, and that Body is Christ. That is the only way we can be saved. It's the only way you and I could ever be safe.

And this is not just "any" faith, not the loveless faith of demons or the dead faith without works. This the living, loving, hoping, choosing, working Faith --- Lord, give us evermore this Faith! --- which saves.

[.45 Long Colt]

We disagree.

God bless

[metmom]

Even if we are judged according to *our* works, then believers are still judged as righteous.

For one thing, God has prepared works in advance for the believer to do. So they are God’s works that we can do that He counts to us.

The other thing is that the righteousness of Christ is credited to our account, so when God sees us, He sees us as righteous as Christ is.

But we aren’t judged according to our works for salvation.

We are made righteous through forgiveness and mercy, which is ALWAYS a gift granted to someone. Forgiveness and mercy cannot be earned or it would not be forgiveness and mercy.

[metmom]

Briefly, all of the commands of the whole of Scripture are meaningless if God does not actually require us to "Repent," "Choose", "Obey," "Come," "Love," "Follow", "Keep the commandments," "Have Faith," "Take and eat," "Take and drink," "Do this," "Watch," "Pray," "Work," and all those other imperative verbs of which I could find dozens.

God requires perfection, not good works.

Be ye holy as God is holy.

A standard we cannot reach.

EVER.

Good works are meaningless to save as once we sin one sin, we are condemned to death and a whole life full of perfection cannot eliminate the consequences of one sin.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"We are made righteous through forgiveness and mercy, which is ALWAYS a gift granted to someone. Forgiveness and mercy cannot be earned or it would not be forgiveness and mercy."

Amen to that.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"God requires perfection, not good works."

"He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God. (Micah 6:8)

But I don't mean his to be a War of the One-Liners. In a sense, what you said is true, and well-said, because succinct. I honestly admire your, um, succinction. (Is that a noun?) Yet it's another way of stating what I said, that we must be incorporated into Christ. That's the only way we can be perfect, and thus the only way we can be safe.