Catholic, Are You Born Again?

Tim Staples' Blog ^ | February 5, 2014 | Tim Staples

[metmom]

Certainly the Bible is clear that water baptism is not an absolute requirement for salvation (although it is a normative one); consider the penitent thief for example.

Then why does the Catholic church demand it?

[Just mythoughts]

In fact, Jesus’ famous “born again” discourse of John 3:3-5, which is where we find the words “born again” (or “born anew”) in Scripture, teaches us about the essential nature of baptism:

Every soul/spirit intellect that has taken this flesh journey has been 'born from above'. Christ never used the phrase 'born again', and what He was instructing Nicodemus is explained in John 3:13

And NO man hath ascended up to heaven, but He That came down from heaven, even the Son of man Which is in heaven.

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the *children* are partakers of flesh and blood, He (Christ) also Himself likewise took part of the same; *THAT* through death HE might destroy him that had the power of death, that is the devil;

Notice what Christ asks Nicodemus John 3:10 after Nicodemus asks Christ "How can these things be?" in verse 9

Christ ask Nicodemus "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?....What Christ taught was not new, else He would not have asked Nicodemus as a 'master of Israel' why Nicodemus did not understand what Christ was saying.

The book of Jude speaks of those that refused to take this flesh journey, they are also called the 'fallen angels'.

Chris did not say all that take this flesh journey would see the kingdom of God, only that to 'see' that kingdom the first requirement was to take this flesh journey. Obviously, every soul born of woman decided to take this journey.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“If you’re not Catholic why does Catholicism bother you so much.”

---

Meanwhile, the thread is a direct attack against Protestants, though it’s littered with stupid strawmen as usual. One wonders why FR Catholics are constantly harping against us.

[metmom]

Some churches have baptismals. Some people are baptized in lakes at church camps.

Do you have a church you are currently attending? They can help you.

[Alex Murphy]

We decided WHAT WAS GOSPEL. There were a lot of books floating around out there. We decided the canon. Not your little sect. You’re using OUR book.

On what basis did "you" (presuming "you" means "the Catholic church") decide "what was (the) Gospel", out of "a lot of books floating out there"?

[gemoftheocean]

Pretty much useless as you can’t be “re-baptized.” Ask your new protestant friends when they will eat Jesus’ flesh and blood as He commanded in John 6. “Unless you EAT my flesh and DRINK my blood you have NO LIFE within you.” Apparently, you have chosen “no life within you.” Good luck with that. Judas did a bang up job with that bit. That’s exactly where he fell away from Jesus. So you and Judas will be good buddies.

You should know better. And I’m sure they will be able to show you where in the bible it’s forbidden to baptize children. As a matter of fact Acts tells us that entire HOUSEHOLDS were baptised. Try following ALL of what Jesus said. Not just the bits you like.

[Just mythoughts]

What backwoods fool told you that one? We decided WHAT WAS GOSPEL. There were a lot of books floating around out there. We decided the canon. Not your little sect. You’re using OUR book.

John 1:1 In the beginning (Genesis) was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

I suppose it is impossible to hear/read the arrogance of your claim. God made a donkey speak to a preacher for hire. Claiming credit for things not possible does not make ones claims credible.

[bramps]

Approx. 30 years ago I went to a Catholic church to deal with something very heavy on my mind. I didn't know where else to go and to me at the time all churches were Catholic. I vividly remember finding the priest inside and him asking me why I was there. I was very hesitant but in a pretty desperate state of mind as I told him that I didn't think that I knew how to love.

His response? “Maybe you should try to find a counselor or therapist of some kind”.

Boanrges, I was only willing to write that to implore you to stay away from a Catholic church. Just last week the Pope made a statement to Muslims effectively saying Christianity and Islam will lead you to the same place.
It was only years later that I met an Evangelical family and discovered what a Christian really is. I congratulate you on taking the steps you have taken. I would suggest researching churches in your area and visiting them to find one you enjoy attending AND preaches the Bible, not ‘feel good’ garbage that even many supposed Protestant churches preach today. A good church will help you grow as a Christian AND you will look forward to going, rather than dread it as I remember dreading Catholic church as a youth. Any good Pastor will be thrilled to hear of your experience give you whatever info you need on getting baptized.

[Religion Moderator]

Try following ALL of what Jesus said. Not just the bits you like.

Attributing motives, reading minds and making the thread 'about' individual Freepers are all forms of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

[Boanarges]

I do not wish to get into some theological debate with you or anyone. I can only tell you, for me personally, Catholicism with all its endless rules, regs, rituals, sacraments, do’s and don’ts, I was made to feel like a neurotic in a spiritual sense.

I began reading the Bible many years ago and prayed God would lead me to the Truth. The more I read the Bible and prayed the more I was led away from not only Catholicism, but all religion. Religion is a waste of time in my humble opinion.

I never wished to speak to a Priest at any given time during my studies and praying. Truth is, the Holy Spirit was opening my eyes in ways no other human being could do.

[Religion Moderator]

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

[gemoftheocean]

Alex, here’s a pretty good relatively short read re: the canonicity of the New Testament. There is also a fairly lengthy article about the topic in the New Jerome Bible study. [It’s quite expensive, but a good library may have a copy. You should certainly be able to find one at any good Catholic university in the area.]

At any rate, here is the reference in question. [And it IS a very interesting topic.] http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03274a.htm

[gemoftheocean]

“I suppose it is impossible to hear/read the arrogance of your claim. God made a donkey speak to a preacher for hire. Claiming credit for things not possible does not make ones claims credible. “

And the Shepard of Hermas is not part of the NT why? Ditto other books frequently read but deemed not scriptural in the end. SomEONE had to decide, and given PETER and his successors were authorized by Jesus himself to “bind and loose” and Jesus said he was building his church on Peter [Matthew] and that Timothy said that the Church is “the pillar and foundation of truth.” Then I think it would be a good thing to know who had the authority to do declare something scriptural. Certainly not your sect. I’m going on the apostolic succession Jesus Himself established and am not taking a chance on your sect. if that sounds “arrogant” take it up with Jesus. I didn’t make the rules and decisions. HE did!

[gemoftheocean]

Oh, and my goodness. Do you not know “the Word” in this context means CHRIST HIMSELF? This is an affirmation of the trinity. Which protestants also believe in. I.E. the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are 3 persons in one and the same God. It’s a mystery, but one thing ALL Christians believe in. Sheesh.

[wmfights]

gem: We decided WHAT WAS GOSPEL.

LOL

What a tired old talking point. Just a little research reveals that the Holy Spirit guided Born Again Christians in seeing which books were inspired and which to reject. Just one example is the quick rejection of the "Protoevangelium of James". This book written in the 2nd century was rejected before the Roman church was able to use state power to enforce it's will.

IOW, there was very little controversy concerning what was inspired and what wasn't. The only time some council was called, or a bishop made some sweeping declaration, was because pagan beliefs were growing within a given area. Also, these supposed authoritative statements only start showing up several generations after the Apostolic Era had ended. The fact there wasn't more controversy earlier is a testimony to how seriously Christians viewed Scripture.

[Just mythoughts]

And the Shepard of Hermas is not part of the NT why? Ditto other books frequently read but deemed not scriptural in the end. SomEONE had to decide, and given PETER and his successors were authorized by Jesus himself to “bind and loose” and Jesus said he was building his church on Peter [Matthew] and that Timothy said that the Church is “the pillar and foundation of truth.” Then I think it would be a good thing to know who had the authority to do declare something scriptural. Certainly not your sect. I’m going on the apostolic succession Jesus Himself established and am not taking a chance on your sect. if that sounds “arrogant” take it up with Jesus. I didn’t make the rules and decisions. HE did!

This so called authorized succession was made up. I have read Peter's words and not even he named his successor.

Furthermore, given the blissful ignorance of all those holy prophets that Peter and Christ relied upon make the so called Old Testament one and the same as the Gospel. In Deuteronomy 32 there are two rocks. Even Paul instructed that what happened before to them was our script that would be again to draw down this flesh age.

Grace is unmerited favor and can only come from the Heavenly Father in the name of His only Begotten Son. Nobody else has a say in regards to each individual. There is no Mary on the Heavenly throne. And what about that key to David, that closes and/or locks doors?

I could spend days pointing out things you all allowed in the WORD that are completely ignored via so called succession. Might as well toss the original in the trash. Peter never made up a whole bunch of so called feast days and he sure never rolled easter eggs or had the authority to pass off that power to any one else.