Posted on 01/16/2014 9:13:21 AM PST by GonzoII
Again, I don’t see the difference. Faith without works is dead.
It’s only when we try to separate them that the apparent difference occur.
Hence the Reformation
Faith without works is dead.
No argument, just giving the credit to the One who makes faith alive.
>> just giving the credit to the One who makes faith alive.
So you think the problem is in who is given credit?
Is there a difference there?
We are saved by grace through faith. We must have faith. Is this something we can do apart from grace? No. Neither are good works. If you have a problem with we 'must,' then it applies to faith as well.
Yep, it does. It is funny then that Catholics receive that 'gift' through grace and acknowledge the same, then turn about and 'add' their good works to the mix, as if the performance of those works was an effort of their own will rather than through the work of the Holy Spirit. IOW acknowledging God works salvation in us from beginning to end, that it is really all grace through faith not of works as scripture maintains.
It seems you are agreeing that you have the same problem with we 'must,' as it applies to faith as you do with works.
all grace through faith not of works as scripture maintains.
You are again making the error of either/or, separating the two. Holy Scripture does not. If you think you have one without the other you have neither.
Again, one of the many reasons for the Reformation. Applying human reason and effort to make effective something given to one by God. We ‘must’ have faith, we ‘must’ have works in keeping with that faith neither of which are by our doing. Both the faith and the works are gifts given to us by grace from God.
Paul makes it clear that salvation is completely apart from works. There’s a glorious passage in Romans 4 that spells this out. In a nutshell,
“Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. However to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.”
James speaks to saved believers, challenging them to LIVE OUT their saving faith. He is not questioning their salvation (which is apart from works) but their sanctification (where works are played out as a reasonable response to the gift of God).
Actually James makes it clear that Faith without works is dead and a dead Faith cannot be saving.
He also makes it clear in 2:24 that you are not JUSTIFIED i.e. "saved" without works which brings into question a person's salvation:
"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. "
His words appear more of a warning than a challenge.
FReegards
Of course it is all through the grace of God.
Do you think we play no part or our thoughts, beliefs, actions do not matter? Are you perhaps an adherent of Calvinist (double) predestination?
Of course it is all through the grace of God.
Nice to see you agree with me. Faith and good works are a result of those gifts from God, not by our efforts.
I’m grateful we agree on the error of Calvinism.
As regards the other, you’re referring to the heresy of Pelagius.
It is a heresy condemned at the Council of Carthage. So, I think it’s not accurate to use it to describe the Church’s teaching.
Pelagius held to error on one end of spectrum.
Error on the other end include easy believerism, sola fide and once saved always saved.
All these errors arise from the first one: separating faith and works - through grace.
Jesus said His yoke was easy. Paul said we were saved by faith not works after his 'seminary' where he was taught by Christ. Jesus said no one can snatch His from His hand. I don't separate faith and works, that was plain from my posts. The article has them separated.
I don't think I did.
If by the 'Church' you mean Catholics we aren't in agreement as anyone reading the back and forth would see, but it was civil, that doesn't happen that much sadly.
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