Notre Dame to host Catholic-Mormon conference

Notre Dame News ^ | November 27th, 2013 | Michael O. Garvey

[ejonesie22]

I think the point is clear, those who find error in the Bible are liars.

Mormonism says the Bible, the Holy word of God, is imperfect.

So by self will and design or naive ignorance Mormons are liars, or in the case of the latter I will be generous as say they are misguided.

Pretty simple.

So which are you?

[ejonesie22]

Your choice, as long as they follow the One true God. For you that would be a good start, you would be dramatically further along than you are now in that polytheistic mess called the LDS.

[Colofornian]

Rev 11 clearly says there will be two prophets in the last days, I want to join the Church they belong to, can you point it out? Thanks!

#1...Rev. 11:3 describes these so-called "two prophets" as "two witnesses"...who give "testimony" (v. 7). NOT "prophets" per se.

#2...The Mormon Church boasts in having a single Top-Dog "Prophet"...and, unlike, during MUCH of the Old Testament times when Israel's prophets were oft' contemporaries of each other, the Mormon Church allows ONLY ONE "prophet" at a time!!!

So...we already know those "two witnesses" -- if they were indeed to be "prophets" -- aren't Mormon!

#3...There's NOTHING in the book of Revelation about these witnesses being based ONLY in Salt Lake City...

[StormPrepper]

"I think the point is clear, those who find error in the Bible are liars."

Genesis 32:30
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Exodus 33:11
11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

Exodus 33:
20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

Are you actually saying that Psalms is talking about the Bible...is that what you're saying?

[ejonesie22]

I stand on what I said. What you just posted has nothing to do with what I said not the perfection of God’s Holy word.

Simple as that...

But nice try, I know its in the training.

[StormPrepper]

"#1...Rev. 11:3 describes these so-called "two prophets" as "two witnesses"...who give "testimony" (v. 7). NOT "prophets" per se."

Revelation 11:
3 And I will give apower unto my two bwitnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Except that whole part about them prophesying.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

And that part about them standing before God.

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

And they have power over the elements like Moses did... So yea, except for all that they're just regular witnesses.. /sarc

They stand before God, they prophesy, they wield the power of God over the elements, they are prophets.

"Israel's prophets were oft' contemporaries of each other, the Mormon Church allows ONLY ONE "prophet" at a time!!!"

Wrong. There are 15 prophets. There have always been 15 with the exception being the time before someone is replaced because of death.

[ejonesie22]

Since they aren’t really “prophets” it matters not. And how exactly how is a “prophet” elected and how did we get to where there were exactly “X” number of “prophets” at any given time.

[StormPrepper]

"I stand on what I said. What you just posted has nothing to do with what I said not the perfection of God’s Holy word."

I understand that there are people that deify the Bible. I believe it's because it's their only link with God. Therefore, the Bible takes on super natural characteristics to them.

When God speaks, His words are perfect. Man however, is not. And therefore, the things man writes are prone to our human failings.

[ejonesie22]

Oh that is rich from a Polytheist who himself fancies becoming a deity in his own time.

The Bible is sacred, it is Holy, it is the Word of God and worthy of respect, not worship.

The LDS denies the Bible, it twists it, says it is flawed and their own “most perfect book” (words of the LDS itself) are better and correct the word of God.

So again, I stand on what I said. If you are indeed a believer and not an operator manipulating poor souls, get out, get away from the blasphemy and the lies while your own soul remains intact.

If you are one of the manipulators of the LDS cult, then good luck, your battle is up hill and God’s people do not take kindly to the insults and games the cult plays with our Savior.

[StormPrepper]

"Since they aren’t really “prophets” it matters not. And how exactly how is a “prophet” elected and how did we get to where there were exactly “X” number of “prophets” at any given time."

You should be more concerned with the prophets spoken of in Rev 11. People can ignore it, but they can't avoid it. It's going to happen as sure as the sun comes up in the east.

[ejonesie22]

When that happens they will be legitimate prophets as foretold. They will not be elected by a board of mean in over priced velvet chairs.

[ejonesie22]

BTW I find it interesting that you have chosen not to respond to Jim’s post.

[Colofornian]

So? If you don't like it, prove me wrong. Show me where modern "Christianity" has added one new piece of knowledge about God or His kingdom. I'll be happy to say I was wrong.

Ya know, Mormons tout an awful LOT about havin' "livin' prophets" give "modern revelations" for the church...but tis "funny" that when we pull up the supposedly open-ended Chronological Order of Contents of Doctrine & Covenants we find the ONLY "modern" revelation was their 1978 reversal on its racism...

So...please explain...were the previous doctrinal revelations on "race" evidence of Mormon gods' inherent racism...
...or was your church simply led by a dozen consecutive false prophets?

Which of those two options is so?

Show me where modern "Christianity" has added one new piece of knowledge about God or His kingdom.

Where again is the "evidence" of all these "modern" Mormon revelations?

Oh, we "get it"...you MEAN all these back-tracking "reversal revelations"...not just racist practices...but...
...polygamy...
..."Adam is God"...
...blood atonement...
...and the like

ALL: Note that StormPrepper has adopted the "spirit of Joseph Smith" -- who had the audacity to "revise" the Bible minus knowing Greek or Hebrew. The operative key "Smithism" uttered by StormPrepper is "new"...

You see, Joseph Smith never could be "boxed in" by anything. He just innovatively revised and revised everywhere he went.

You see, the "old absolutes" -- like first monogamy, and then polygamy, need to drop by the Mormon wayside at the whim of the Mormon "prophet." Hence, Joseph Smith was an absolute relativist.

Don't believe me? Read Joseph Smith's words from April 1834:
"We are differently situated from any other people that ever existed upon this earth; consequently those former revelations cannot be suited to our conditions; they were given to other people, who were before us..." (History of the Church, 2:52)

Hmmm...no universal absolutes, eh, Joseph? Nothing applicable universally by a universal Lord?

Oh sure, by a decade later, Smith realized (too late) -- two months before his death -- that there was a need for lasting absolutes, after all: "I told him I obtained power on the principles of truth and virtue, which would last when I was dead and gone." (History of the Church 6:273)

But by then, he had made everything so "feelings-based" -- so subjective -- so sentimental -- that he had convinced his ensuing "prophets" and followers that ALL of God's written Word was simply passe':
"When he concluded, Brother Joseph turned to Brother Brigham Young and said, 'Brother Brigham, I want you to take the stand and tell us your views with regard to the oracles and the written word of God.' Brother Brigham took the stand, and he took the Bible, and laid it down; he took the Book of Mormon, and laid it down; and he took the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, and laid it down before him, and he said: 'There is the written word of God to us, concerning the work of God from the beginning of the world, almost, to our day. And now, said he, 'when compared with the living oracles those books are NOTHING to me; those books do not convey the word of God direct to us now...I would rather have the living oracles than all the writing in the books,'...
Source: Lds "prophet" Wilford Woodruff, Conference Report, October 1897, pp. 22-25.

You see, to the Lds "prophets" God's Written Word is "dead" to them. Hence, they make a deadly false assumption about both the Written Word as well as the Living Word!

You see, to those of us in Christ, it -- along with the LivingWord, Jesus Himself -- is ALIVE!

12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12)

Jesus is our ongoing Latter-day Prophet (Heb. 1:1-2);
Jesus promised He would never leave us (Matt. 28:20);
"but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood." (Hebrews 7:24)

Mormons reduce the author of Hebrews to a false prophet when they claim that the Lds priesthood needing to be "restored" -- falsely assuming it wasn't "permanent" -- as the author of Hebrews maintained in 7:24.

ALL, Bottom line here?

"If you took away what the Prophet Joseph has contributed to that we wouldn’t know a lot.”

Lds "apostle" Jeffery R. Holland, Joseph Smith Memorial Fireside, transcript, Logan institute, 1986, p. 18.

Yup, that pretty much sums it up. Just about everything Mormons supposedly "know" is built upon the corpse of Joseph Smith...not the Bible...not God, Himself...not the Holy Spirit...just Joe...and their general authorities even say so!!!!

[boatbums]

One thing I don't understand about this supposed proxy baptism and how the “spirits” of those who died, for whom these baptisms are being done so that they can make it to the kingdom, is WHY would any of these “spirits” ever reject such a thing??? They are already experiencing some kind of spiritual separation from God, right? So I can't imagine any of them actually saying, “No thanks, I'm good.”. There is no mention at all in Scripture of God giving the ungodly a break and a “second” chance - because I'm sure there are dozens of chances throughout one's life - because when they die, that's it, after wards it's the judgment.

[Colofornian]

Wrong. There are 15 prophets. There have always been 15 with the exception being the time before someone is replaced because of death.

ALL: From Primary 5: Doctrine and Covenants: Church History: The Prophet Receives Revelation for the Church

So compare what these Mormons say?

Stormprepper says the Mormon church has 15 active prophets -- unless/until one of them dies...(he is referencing the Lds "Quorum of 12 'apostles'" + the three in the First Presidency.)

But what does the Mormon Church itself say about the number of Lds "prophets" who at any given time have the authority to give revelations for the church?

Who was originally appointed to receive commandments and revelations for the whole Church? (D&C 28:2; 43:2–5.) Why was this done? (D&C 43:6.) What might happen if several people received revelation at the same time for the whole Church? (If they disagreed, members of the Church would not know whom to follow.) Who is the only person who receives revelation for the whole Church today? (The living prophet.) What should we do if someone other than the prophet says he or she has received revelation that Church members should follow? (D&C 43:5–6.) (Source link above)

[StormPrepper]

"Oh that is rich from a Polytheist who himself fancies becoming a deity in his own time."

"If you are one of the manipulators of the LDS cult, then good luck, your battle is up hill and God’s people do not take kindly to the insults and games the cult plays with our Savior."

I hope, do pray that you have a peaceful Christmas. I hope the Lord blesses you in any way He can. I pray that you and your family are kept safe.

Here's some thoughts you might want to consider.

Matthew 5:44
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

2 Peter 1:
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

Colossians 3:
12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

Merry Christmas to you and your family.

[Colofornian]

Revelation 11: 3 And I will give apower unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. Except that whole part about them prophesying.

Have you not read 1 Corinthians 14?

Note all the references to "prophisieth" in those verses...and then particularly note the distinct "speakings" mentioned in verse 7 ... and that the apostle Paul makes a clear "or" distinction between prophesying and speaking "by revelation":

3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. 6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either BY REVELATION, or by knowledge, OR BY PROPHESYING, or by doctrine?

Prophesying may be more in the category of "personal" divine guidance...vs. "revelations for the entire church."

[Colofornian]

...WHY would any of these “spirits” ever reject such a thing??? They are already experiencing some kind of spiritual separation from God, right? So I can't imagine any of them actually saying, “No thanks, I'm good.”. There is no mention at all in Scripture of God giving the ungodly a break and a “second” chance - because I'm sure there are dozens of chances throughout one's life - because when they die, that's it, after wards it's the judgment.

Well, good question. Even the Mormon Book of Mormon teaches that...(And Mormons claim they also pay attention to the Bible...where the writer of Hebrews draws the line: "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" (Heb. 9:27) [Judgment follows death]

Book of Mormon: Alma 42:16 says that eternal punishment is as eternal as the life of the soul. [It's not temporary]

Alma 34:32-35 says there's no second chance: For behold THIS LIFE is the time for men to prepare to meet God...do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life...then cometh the night of darkness wherein THERE CAN BE NO LABOR PERFORMED. Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will reprent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world. (I cited parts of vv. 32-34)

Both Mosiah 16:11 & 1 Nephi 15:35 says there's only TWO destinations post-death (not a third called "spirit prison"). And the BoM knows only heaven & hell -- no temporary spirit prison (Mormon 9:23; Ether 4:18; Hel. 14:18-19; Alma 3:26; Alma 40:26; 2 Nephi 2:28-29; 2 Nephi 9:16; Alma 41:4; 3 Nephi 27:11,17; 2 Nephi 28:21-22).

If Mormons would only study their own Book of Mormon on post-life...(Smith took much of his early belief system from the Bible before it got twisted)...then they'd see how off-kilter this later-developed baptism of the dead idea was...

[StormPrepper]

"Stormprepper says the Mormon church has 15 active prophets -- unless/until one of them dies...(he is referencing the Lds "Quorum of 12 'apostles'" + the three in the First Presidency.)"

"But what does the Mormon Church itself say about the number of Lds "prophets" who at any given time have the authority to give revelations for the church?"

This is worthy of some kind of epic straw man award. Notice I didn't say anything about "revelations for the church". Colofornian inserts that herself then compares that with what I said above. It's comparing apples and bowling balls.

The Prophet of the Church or President of Church is authorized to received revelation for the whole Church. The Quorum of the Twelve Apostles are authorized as prophets, meaning they can prophesy as the Lord wants them too. But it will not be revelation that pertains to the Church as a whole. They are prophets, seers, and revelators as the Lord requires of them.

Explained Here

[ejonesie22]

Mercy is shown, as I said if you are indeed sincere then you are misled and by mercy I invite you to any given bible believing faith.

If you are just one of the gamesmen of the LDS that distort and malign my Savior and his Mission then mercy is what you will need...