Posted on 09/15/2013 1:37:28 PM PDT by matthewrobertolson
Is it Biblical for men to raise another man to be a Saint?
no
so. .
if we determine that ‘saints’ means dead Christians despite the way Paul uses it (in scripture)
and we see that they pray to God
and we impose upon them what they are praying about
we can therefore claim it is scriptural to pray TO them
i see that
no.
really.
perfectly clear.
since a saint is someone known to be in Heaven, of course it’s not possible for a man to raise a soul to saint status
A few flaws in your logic -- you can't impose what they pray about, you can't force them to your will. Even if it were possible, they cannot answer prayers by their own power, merely pass them on to God. So how would it make sense to pray TO them, when they have no personal ability to answer prayers?
Is the saint acting as an intermediary between us and Jesus or does one asks for a saint’s intercessory prayers on our behalf and vice versa?
Of course not, driftdiver. But it is certainly acceptable to recognize someone’s virtuous earthly life, in this case via the process of canonization.
Since certain men claim to "know" that someone enters Heaven, driftdiver's question is all the more pertinent.
Aren’t there any saints on earth?
>>1 Timothy 2:5 the infamous one mediator between God and men verse refers to salvation, not prayer.
OK, but that doesn’t tell me to NOT pray to the Father in Jesus’ name either. We have the Holy Spirit living inside us, and that connects us directly to the Father through Jesus. What is the value of praying to dead humans when I have a direct line to a living and true God?
Arent there any saints on earth?
by the grace of God, there are
We talk to God and ask for things in Jesus’ name; we do not talk to the dead. That is not biblical unless one twists its words.
only for those who chose to ignore God’s miracles. Which makes nothing but sense for a Christian, because The Lord never utilizes miracles. You are so very right, thanks for your input.
Good question, madameguinot. One would ask for a saint’s intercessory prayers on his/her behalf or on behalf of someone else. The saints’ intercessions, however, are no replacement for a personal relationship with God. Oftentimes, though, we can get closer to Him through the heavenly saints.
ever hear of the eternal soul? It’s kinda the whole point of everything. Too much necrophilia in these threads.
Exactly!
I answered that in the post.
“Because the saints have reached perfection (they are in Heaven), their prayers are more effective than the prayers of those that are less righteous, so thats why one might ask them to pray instead of asking another Christian on earth or simply doing it themselves.”
“Too much necrophilia in these threads.”
Yeah- we protestants are way too into relics and prayers to the dead and stuff.
Good point
(sarc)
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