Posted on 09/12/2013 4:22:27 AM PDT by imardmd1
Pretty much what I would expect from a catholic.
Israel won their battles because they were commanded by Yehova. No other reason needed nor available.
You’re obviously not reading past my first or second word.
Every empty argument you have offered has been more than covered. Reading the scriptures would greatly improve your understanding.
To repeat, Paul was writing in Hebrew to mixed congregations, educating them in how to follow Torah, rather than the Pharisee’s Takanot and Ma’assim, and was demonstrating how to find the support they needed in their own Torah scrolls.
When the words “The Jews” are used in Greek translations of NT writings, such as the passage in the Acts that you quoted, it should have been translated “the Sages and the Prushim.” That should clear it up for anyone that actually reads the NT for understanding.
The words “the Jews” in Greek translations never refers to belivers, who always self identified as followers of “the Way.”
All believers, Hebrew, and Gentile alike, always so identified. “Works of the Law” in those same Greek translations always refered to the Pharisee’s false “oral traditions.”
This kind of error would never have occured had Paul actually done the translations.
If you (anyone) are to ever gain understanding of the NT, this is the obstacle that you will have to overcome.
>> “No, all I have to do is show that our Lord established an authoritative teaching church based on Peter and the apostles whose authority exists today with the pope and the bishops” <<
.
But you have completely failed to show that, in fact your posted intransigence tends to show the deep weakness of that argument.
>> “No, all I have to do is show that our Lord established an authoritative teaching church based on Peter and the apostles whose authority exists today with the pope and the bishops” <<
.
But you have completely failed to show that, in fact your posted intransigence tends to show the deep weakness of that argument.
That’s right. All those Christians who witnessed their friends and family die for the faith just gave up and became members of Constantine’s church.
Those who remained faithful went underground, into the catacombs to avoid persecution.
Oh wait/
All wonderful works documenting the truth.
All lost on the willful and obstinately ignorant here.
You raise a very good point here that I have often pondered.
Scripture never records Jesus telling the Apostles about His birth or life before His public ministry so from whom did the Apostles learn about it?
The teachings regarding Mary are actually ancillary to the Gospel.
The Gospel is the good news that Jesus is the Word Incarnate who lived, died and rose for our salvation.
Thus those teachings are not a different gospel but are a result of the Gospel.
Actually they are not ancillary. The directly impact that efficacy of the sacrifice of Jesus and it’s meaning and ramifications. Jesus death on the cross and His resurrection removed the separation between us and direct access to God the Father. The veil was torn which means we no longer need in intermediary but can go directly to the Father in Jesus name. The teachings regarding Mary, especially the claims that she has more influence, is a denial of gift Christ gave us with His death and resurrection.
The teachings can be linked directly to Jesus. Each one has its beginning and end with who and what Jesus is and did for our salvation.
None of them take away from, detract from or deny that Jesus is Lord, the Son of God who is our Savior.
It is like saying the moon takes away, detracts from or denies the light that is the sun.
Without the sun, the moon would not be visible.
And so it is with Mary.
See my post 2088
See my post 2088
And where might I find this post?
Oops. My bad. Had just posted to another thread and then replied to your post to me. It’s here. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3055274/posts?page=2088#2088
******Need I go on? Catholics have replaced virtually every attribute and working of God and given that to Mary in their worship.******
Ah yes, I have seen this from you before and guess what.....
It still doesn’t mean what you seem to think it does.
Where in any of that prayer Mary has replaced every attribute of Jesus and working of God? It is only there in the willful misreading that one must do to make that claim.
Mary, who was perfectly united to God, Her Son shares in His every virtue and shares in His Glory just as we one day will.
Jesus tells us to be perfect just as our Father in heaven is perfect. Can you be perfect? I know I can’t be so. I want to be. I strive to be. Yet, I fall short.
That will change when one fully enters the Kingdom of God in heaven and receives the crown of righteousness.
Mary is no different than us in most ways. She needed Jesus as her Savior, but she alone held within her the Word Incarnate in a physical way.
Everything mentioned in that prayer is no different than what Jesus calls all of us to be and to do through Him. Without Him we can do nothing and with Him all things are possible.
We are all called to be holy, merciful, forgiving, a refuge to our brothers and sisters and a source of grace for them.
As for the quote from St. Alphonse......since you did not give the work or any other notation as to where to find it, I had to google the phrase in order to locate it.
What did I find? That search took me to several different protestant sites that cite “The Glories of Mary” by St. Alphonse, exactly as you quoted it in your post. Word for word, verbatim. Hmmmm
Seeing that it was only a partial quote I then searched to see if I could find the full text in context. Imagine my surprise when I could not find that phrase in his book on the pages listed by each and every one of those sites.
The problem with taking these little snippets at face value when finding them on anti Catholic sites is that they leave out so much. And that omission is by design in order to inflame those who come there that have no idea of what is actually the writings of a certain priest, pope, or theologian.
St. Alphonse is certainly over the top in light of our times, but his prose and deep devotions were not seen that way in his own time. Also, he never writes about Mary without linking her every attribute or grace to Jesus her Son and as a gift from God.
Unlike the Manicheans, Catholics believe that all that God created is good and is therefore useful for us in our search for Him. That includes all people, but especially those whom God called for a special purpose.
Mary’s purpose is singular and unique, never to be visited upon any other human woman. God did not merely use her physical body but also uses her spiritual motherhood for our good. She is truly the lily of all holiness because she is the lily that God prepared for Himself and He is all holiness.
Mary always was and is what she is because of her Son. Apart from Him she would have none of the honor and blessings that we all hope to have one day ourselves.
Of course it doesn’t. Nothing Catholics say means what they are saying it means something different. When they pray “we cast ourselves into your arms” they don’t really mean they are casting themselves into her arms it means they are not casting themselves into her arms. And when they pray that she is the “Conqueress of evil and death” it really does’t mean they think she is but it means something different.<
The double speak is astounding! How anyone can fall for the deceit of the RCC to the extent we see here is nothing less than breathtaking. The more I learn of the Catholic beliefs the more appalled I am. What a horrid, horrid organization that is.
>> Where in any of that prayer Mary has replaced every attribute of Jesus and working of God?<<
I’ll just give one example.
“Conqueress of evil and death”.
Mary is NOT the conquress of evil and death. Jesus is.
Hosea 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.
You don’t even need to try to spin some double speak in response. We already know that Satan’s grasp on the RCC is vise like.
Your word was REPLACED and that is not what that prayer is about.
We are all conquerors of death in Christ Jesus.
That is the whole message of the Gospel.
We are children of God, we are inheritors of the Kingdom of God, we are made perfect through His sacrifice and we receive eternal rest in God, the Father because of Jesus the Son.
We are imitators of Christ, called to be as much like Him as we can be. The closer we are to Him, the more His grace works in us and through us in this world.
There is NO ONE closer to Jesus than Mary and no one who more perfectly formed herself to God’s will. And so she has already received the crown, the honor and the glory that Jesus promises us all.
There is no doublespeak, but rather a well of incredibly
thoughtful theology that one who sees no deeper than a muddy puddle can understand.
So, no, you cannot point to one thing in that where the pope has replaced Jesus with Mary because that is not what is being done or said here.
Our Father in heaven gives us every good gift, just as Jesus said He would. Praise be to God.
******When they pray “we cast ourselves into your arms” they don’t really mean they are casting themselves into her arms it means they are not casting themselves into her arms*******
What utter nonsense!
I will pray for you CB. It must be difficult to live with such bitterness and hostility.
Praising Mary for what Christ did and does is denying Christ.
bump
Please don’t. I know what Catholic prayers are and I want no inclusion in such paganisms.
>>It must be difficult to live with such bitterness and hostility.<<
Nope. I detest Satan’s influence in this world and the religions that have fallen for his lies and that promote those lies. I know to those who follow those deceptions it seems like bitterness and hostility but Jesus words to the Pharisees are appropriate I believe. And the warnings in Revelation to those churches who refuse to listen make my admonitions seem loving.
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