Posted on 08/27/2013 11:53:37 AM PDT by NYer
Add me to the list of those who agree.
The irony and hypocrisy is that there are plenty of words that describe their beliefs that they expect us to accept and THEY aren't found in the Bible either.
Words like: catholic, sacrament, mass, eucharist, transubstantiation, apostolic succession, pontiff, papacy, pope, trinity, incarnation, immaculate conception, assumption, purgatory, limbo, penance, indulgence, rosary, Lent, magisterium, creed, and so on.
Can you say *double standard*?
Laugh all you want. Your church isn't in denial about that fact.
From the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
"Changes in Catholic Attitudes Toward Bible Readings" By Msgr. Daniel Kutys
Until the twentieth Century, it was only Protestants who actively embraced Scripture study. That changed after 1943 when Pope Pius XII issued the encyclical Divino Afflante Spiritu. This not only allowed Catholics to study Scripture, it encouraged them to do so. And with Catholics studying Scripture and teaching other Catholics about what they were studying, familiarity with Scripture grew.
Just wow. Now Catholics are *allowed* to read the Bible. Before they weren't.
From the Coming Home Network International
How Not to Become a Catholic, Part Four Reflections on Conversion by James Tonkowich
Ask almost anyone over the age of sixty who was raised Catholic and you will hear how priests discouraged reading the Bible. Its too complicated. You will only get things wrong, seems to have been the common priestly warning. It seems that many if not most Catholic families didnt even have a copy of the Scriptures in the home.
At one time, the Catholic church actually forbade its members to even OWN a Bible.
COUNCIL OF TOULOUSE - 1229 A.D Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; unless anyone from motive of devotion should wish to have the Psalter or the Breviary for divine offices or the hours of the blessed Virgin; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.
Source: Heresy and Authority in Medieval Europe, Edited with an introduction by Edward Peters, Scolar Press, London, copyright 1980 by Edward Peters, ISBN 0-85967-621-8, pp. 194-195, citing S. R. Maitland, Facts and Documents [illustrative of the history, doctrine and rites, of the ancient Albigenses & Waldenses], London, Rivington, 1832, pp. 192-194.
The Council of Tarragona of 1234, in its second canon:
No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned lest, be he a cleric or a layman, he be suspected until he is cleared of all suspicion. (-D. Lortsch, Historie de la Bible en France, 1910, p.14.)
Now, about that derision you are displaying.......
That makes four.
I think I’ll keep a running total for the next RC who tries to pull that.
five
paladinan, ping to posts 871, 941, and 945.
The running total of those who agree with bkaycee’s explanation/definition of sola scriptura is now five.
And counting, I daresay, aside from the person who originally wrote the piece, which would make it six by default; the author and five FReepers to date.
They why didn't he same "My flesh profitith..."?
Amen!
And who defines what is "valid"?
There is the problem. You admit that your own deductions are "valid" yet deny that to others.
The Passover was metaphor. It was foreshadowing. It is realized on the Cross and at the Altar.
Baptists and Protestants obviously gain some blessing by being sincere and by being gathered in His Name.
But no, there is no transsubstantiation going on and there is no ordinary, sacramental transmission of grace.
Since you are not Orthodox I am not sure why you have chimed in.
You gave specifics. I gave a general outline. What I said is true.
It's talking about unauthorized and corrupt translations.
Your argument falls apart when you quote things that you don't understand.
How does receiving a gift of grace translate into me "earning" something?
What is so difficult about the concept of grace (i.e. God's gift of Himself) transforming us?
What do you think "faith" is? Is it an easy thing? Is it just intellectual assent to an idea? Belief in something?
I thought faith without works is dead. Do you need a living faith?
LOL.
The Christian Church looks at the Scriptures as the only and sufficient rule of faith and the Church is always subject to the Word, and is constantly reformed thereby.
And which "Christian Church" is that again? The one that baptizes infants or adults only? The one that has sacraments or not? The one with predestination or free will?
Where is the consistency, the interpretation, the authenticating?
LOL
Six...
So God's grace is attained through human action.
Chapter and verse?
I, OTOH, believe that God does not apportion His grace only to those who perform certain actions. On the contrary, God's grace is LAVISHED on us. It is a gift, freely given to the believer. Since God dwells in us, He deposits it right in our hearts freely and lavishly.
Ephesians 1:3-10 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
Romans 3:21-25 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith.
Romans 5:1-2 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Romans 11:5-6 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
Galatians 5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
Hebrews 4:16 Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
James 4:6 But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.
There is not one place in the entire NT where we are told that grace is conferred to us through sacraments.
Here is a link to a keyword search of the NT on the word *grace*.
If you don't beleive me, you can research it yourself.
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=+grace&version1=ESV&searchtype=all&bookset=2
That describes living faith as opposed to intellectual assent.
Then we have Christ dwell in our hearts through faith, not in our bodies in our stomach until He's gone and it has to be renewed next week.
Ephesians 3:14-19 For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faiththat you, being rooted and grounded in love, may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
It does not say that and retroactively claiming that’s what they meant is not valid.
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