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Rating Church? 'Secret Shoppers' Helping Pastors
CBN ^ | August 20, 2013 | Efrem Graham

Posted on 08/20/2013 6:53:49 AM PDT by xzins

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1 posted on 08/20/2013 6:53:49 AM PDT by xzins
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To: xzins

I get that feeling welcome is important, but I wish this article had said even one word about the reason you should go to church in the first place — to worship God.

I see a lot about the seeker — as I always do in stories of this nature, but not lot about worship — as I always do in stories of this nature.


2 posted on 08/20/2013 6:58:55 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Army dad. And damned proud.)
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To: Colonel_Flagg

Yep. It’s about church research and retention.

However, as a pastor, I’m amazed at the number of guests we have that seem to be isolated and ignored.

People’s response: “We don’t want them to seem overwhelmed.”

My response: “Anyone worried about ‘underwhelming’ them?”


3 posted on 08/20/2013 7:03:04 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins
Pastors are using it to improve people's experiences at their churches.

I wonder what the secret shoppers would think of the church if the pastor actually preached the undiluted Gospel and the congregation came under the conviction of the Holy Spirit? Pastors who concern themselves the creating the best here and now experience will end up with congregations who's bye and bye experiences will be not so sweet.

4 posted on 08/20/2013 7:08:37 AM PDT by tbpiper
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To: xzins
My favorite "church" is the great outdoors with fresh air and good fishing.

After that, it is one which preaches sound doctrine and has a congregation who seem genuinely interested in helping each other.

I believe it is these type of places which will fill needed leadership voids when TSHTF and many of our present ruling class get the Nicolae & Elena Ceaușescu treatment.

5 posted on 08/20/2013 7:14:24 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: xzins

I do wonder, though, if the question ever gets asked. Personally it doesn’t bother me in the slightest if everyone around me doesn’t shake my hand in the ‘passing of the peace’ or whatever it’s called these days.

I do mind very much, however, if I’m made to sing worship team pablum off the contemporary Christian hit charts and then subjected to a message that isn’t centered on God’s Word. I don’t consider either of those things reverent to God, and since reverence is the reason I go to church, I’d rather see those things than feeling ‘isolated’. If I want handshakes, I’ll go and get them myself.


6 posted on 08/20/2013 7:14:44 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Army dad. And damned proud.)
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To: Colonel_Flagg

I had an Episcopal Priest tell me once that “Church is a product and you have to sell it to prospective buyers”. Make no mistake about it, most churches these days are not about worship of GOD, they are about worship of the almighty dollar!


7 posted on 08/20/2013 7:15:45 AM PDT by The Sons of Liberty (For congress, it's not the principle of the thing, it's the money.)
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To: All
You have no doubt heard of mystery shoppers who visit department stores and secretly evaluate customer service. Now, there is a new wrinkle to this old concept: Pastors are using it to improve people's experiences at their churches. "Even the American Medical Association recommends to their member doctor to have secret patient shoppers," Thomas Harrison said. Harrison is the founder of Secret Church Shopper, a firm that travels to churches across the country to secretly evaluate worship experiences.

Truth is stranger than fiction:
Analysts Predict Biggest Christmas Church Shopping Season Ever
Afraid of breaking news to pastors, family now attends six churches

8 posted on 08/20/2013 7:16:20 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (Just a common, ordinary, simple savior of America's destiny.)
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To: The Sons of Liberty

These days, church is about marketing. Religion is about God.


9 posted on 08/20/2013 7:16:38 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Army dad. And damned proud.)
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To: The Sons of Liberty

And if you will pardon the digression, your s/n rocks. Thank you for your service.


10 posted on 08/20/2013 7:17:44 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Army dad. And damned proud.)
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To: tbpiper

That’s not necessarily so. You can have the a church that is perfect in its legal take on doctrine but cold as a fish. You can have another church that is perfect in its take on doctrine AND warm, friendly, and loving.

I pick door #2.

My experience as a pastor is:

1. People don’t reach out to newcomers because they’re actually busy touching base with family, friends, etc., who are already part of the church. In the excitement of that, they just get lost in the moment. It’s not unfriendliness that keeps them from caring about newcomers, it’s enjoying the moment with loved ones.

2. People don’t reach out to newcomers because they really aren’t comfortable with what to say or do.

3. People don’t reach out to newcomers because they are in their own private world when they arrive at, participate, and depart church.


11 posted on 08/20/2013 7:18:41 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins
I've been going to Catholic Churches all my life.
From my observations, the dearth of or bump in attendance, whether daily or Sundays, has been because of time of year. We've ALWAYS had our C&E attendees. C&E = Christmas and Easter. Summer time has always been slow for vacation time.
Rain seems to thin things out A BIT. The Alka-Selzer Mass (11:30 or noon) draws an older crowd who don't have to get up early anymore. We have a children's Mass where ALL THE SMALL CHILDREN ON THE PLANET seem to attend with doting parents. The parents become WillieMaysBobbingHeadDolls with taking screaming toddlers in and out of the pews for scream-time.

A gangbuster parish priest draws in a few more, but not much more. The real draw for the daily attendee, that is, me, is being able to partake of the real Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord every single day of my life. Who WOULDN'T want that? I need food for my journey through this corporeal life and need food for my journey to Heaven. You know that we believe that the priest has the Jesus-given authority (Do this in memory of me.) to call down the Holy Spirit to change the bread and wine. It gives me peace, joy and hope.

I have an old friend in Texas who says that they have the same service of the changing of bread and wine in her Presbyterian Church. SHE also believes that the bread and wine are "transubstaniated."

Maybe it's different for Protestant churches.

12 posted on 08/20/2013 7:18:49 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: xzins
"I've noticed poison sumac growing in the flower beds, next to the main entrance, four foot tall," he said.

More than likely, what this evaluator saw was Staghorn sumac, an ornamental which often gets confused with its poisonous cousin. Not only is staghorn sumac not poisonous, but the ripe berries can be harvested, bruised and seeped in cold water to produce a very nice drink which tastes close to pink lemonade.

Here in SW Pennsylvania, it grows all over the place, including hillsides and ditch banks. Few people use it as an ornamental due to the confusion with poison sumac, which produces a greenish white berry with looser clumps than the telltale red, maroon or reddish white staghorn shape.

I'm one of those few people. I have neighbors and visitors tell me it is poisonous. But the berries are getting ripe about now, so maybe I'll offer them a drink next time it happens.

13 posted on 08/20/2013 7:27:16 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: xzins

We got about a half-dozen of these at my Catholic Church.

After Mass they come streaming to me, a lowly usher, with their complaints. The Priest is doing this wrong, the Liturgy should be done THAT way, etc.

I look like the Pope apparently.


14 posted on 08/20/2013 7:30:48 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Colonel_Flagg

I am a through the bible type preacher. We’re now in Genesis after having just finished revelation. To keep the balance between old and new testaments, I’ll finish genesis and then go to matthew. Then back to the old testament.

Why do it that way? So the people hear the entire word of God.

One part of the word of God talks about the church. Jesus called it “His Church”. In Acts we read of the church appointing deacons (servers) to deal with the physiological needs of the believers.

The only reason I can come up with for that is that the early church thought care and compassion to be important along with the other aspects of the faith.


15 posted on 08/20/2013 7:31:19 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins

Care and compassion is important, yes. That’s why we don’t worship as individuals. There is strength in the Body of Christ.

However, I do believe modern churchgoing is skewed in the opposite direction. My church, for example, will do just about anything to attract students from our nearby colleges. In so doing, it has cheapened the worship experience for many older members in the name of ‘churchtainment’.

The students don’t stay anyway, but this is the kind of story I’m sure our elders would read with interest.


16 posted on 08/20/2013 7:34:28 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Army dad. And damned proud.)
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To: cloudmountain

Amen Brother!


17 posted on 08/20/2013 7:38:34 AM PDT by notaliberal (Never lose heart. The most high will strengthen and protect you....Fr. Francis Jordan)
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To: Colonel_Flagg

Worship is not entertainment. Nor is a congregation an audience. The “service” is not a “performance”. Yet, it gets treated that way too often.

Too often we have those who think their job is to spectate and someone else’s job is to provide something upon which they are to spectate.

If the congregation is spectating instead of worshipping, going through learned motions instead of worshipping, or daydreaming instead of worshipping, or sitting on their hands instead of worshipping, then they have not worshipped.

None of that, however, should prevent a true worshipper from being friendly to a newcomer.


18 posted on 08/20/2013 7:40:00 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins

Amen to all of that, Chaplain. God bless you.

I’ll give you one example of what I’m talking about. One of our worship team leaders is a terrifically talented singer. Yet she is so into her own performance that she doesn’t realize that her job is to help the congregation learn the pablum we’re singing to try to add to the worship experience. There are people around me, especially the older members, who just stand there and don’t sing.

We get to listen to sermonettes between songs and occasionally even learn how they impact her own personal walk with Christ. Worship buzzkill.

Thankfully we have an exceptional pastor who teaches the Word at every opportunity.


19 posted on 08/20/2013 7:45:28 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Army dad. And damned proud.)
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To: Vigilanteman

My favorite “church” is the great outdoors with fresh air and good fishing.
After that, it is one which preaches sound doctrine and has a congregation who seem genuinely interested in helping each other.


your point 1. I just had the same experience, sat outside and saw Gods majesty, felt the wind on my face. And thought this is much better than sitting in church and seeing all man made things.

your point 2. Sound doctrine doesn’t get us in heaven. “Go away, I never knew you..........” always haunts me. As I read the Bible more, it is about having a repenting/changing relationship with God.

your point 3. This helping thing has me puzzled, but I am getting more convinced we have to stop helping people and let God help them first. When we solve problems, we shortcut Gods work many times.


20 posted on 08/20/2013 7:49:26 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple
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