Posted on 06/12/2013 11:25:22 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
I mean independent of Jesus’ current temporal role in the world.
Please explain how it would falsify, not just supplement, a stand alone view of 3:17.
(I believe your cavil is on the order of “quarrels about words.” In this case we do not have a mystical statement whose parts do not make any sense except as a gestalt. We have a compound statement of clauses each of which is clear and true as a unit. The part of the statement in 3:18 does not assert that Jesus is actually damning anybody, only that Jesus is warning that some are damned. To assume that Jesus is also the one doing that damning in the present time is to assert “facts not in evidence” and as I pointed out, there is good reason to believe that is not the case.)
I apologize, however, if my attitude has been wrong towards you (and maybe it was, as I was letting myself get anxious). I might agree to disagree with you about the meaning of the part of the statement in 3:17, but I don’t need to be getting “angry with my brother” about it. (The Lord’s servant must be able to teach, not resentful)
I think we can draw a broader point from the whole scripture and it still agrees with my general tenor of grace. Jesus came into the world to warn it that it was damned unless it accepted Him, and also conversely to tell the world that the good news of being able to accept Him had an upside beyond their wildest dreams. However I’m asserting that He wasn’t going to put any limitations during life on who might accept Him. If Jesus actually DID damn any specific people at the current time (before their personal death at any rate), then he would be putting limitations on it. So I assert that the clause in 3:17 is in fact true of itself, as a necessity in order to enable the maximum outreach of grace possible.
And yes, I know this probably doesn’t sit well with Calvinists, at least some Calvinists. Now that the Lord has been doing wonders in my own life, and I have seen a little about how He does that, I am inclined, I suppose, to be “Calminian.” But Calvinist and Arminian are human categories. The Bible never said “Choose whether you are to be a Calvinist or an Arminian.” People did.
But in other contexts we see that Jesus is not always furnished with complete details in certain times by His Father. God reserves that information to the person of the Father. So a certain agnosticism as to who can be saved would, at least, be demonstrable as possible. At any rate, WE do not know from outward appearances; all we can see is who is sailing briskly towards hell NOW. Not whether in fact Jesus is poised to make a dramatic save in that person’s eternal life.
And as regards to us Christians it is unambiguous... there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. All for us is grace; even God’s pointings out of our wrongdoing (however bad our wrongdoing gets) and our chastisements by Him (however bewildering at the time) are imbued with His grace. Grace says that the sooner you stop worrying, the better. The thoughts we need to take are thoughts of love, and not just some generalized love, but love that has a distinct purpose.
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