Posted on 06/04/2013 7:26:39 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
You’ve missed my point entirely and, in missing my point, have read into my post (and then denounced) things I did not say or imply. It was my intention to point out how some elevate the doctrine of election to the point where they would ignore the Lord’s command to preach the gospel. You’ve said things like, “So, if we take your position seriously...” and, “Yet, you would have us to believe...” and then insert things that I did not say.
I attribute this to your having missed the metaphor I used about the door...We currently stand on one side of that door, conscious of the other, but ever acting in our faith in light of the side of the door which men in their flesh can see.
Kelly,
Good morning!! Great question. The term “in Christ” is used to explain our union with Christ. So if a person is a believer they are in Christ, they are in Union with Him, they have a close relationship they have their lives changed and their heart of Stne is gone and the Holy Spirit resides with them.
When we are chosen in Christ before the creation of the world that doesn’t mean we were spirit beings before. It means that God who knows and sees all things “knew” us before we were born and chose us to be united with His Son. A quick analogy cold be is that God is outside of time so in essence one could say that the future is the “present” for him. How it actually works out only He knows but either way He knows the future and as such is ale to determine whom He wants to choose.
Hopefully that helps. Have a great day.
“You’ve missed my point entirely and, in missing my point, have read into my post (and then denounced) things I did not say or imply.”
That’s what it seems like to you, but it was totally on purpose because I DID catch your point. It’s just that your point and the scripture’s point cannot coexist.
” It was my intention to point out how some elevate the doctrine of election to the point where they would ignore the Lord’s command to preach the gospel. “
There was no such person here, so...
The short answer is this: The bible teaches both election and complete free will. It is not a simple black-or-white issue, like calvinists want you to believe it is.
Shadow what reference do ou refer to about seeking after ha father?? Also for all intents and purposes it us a black and white issue...
Mans has a free will to act according to its nature....the unregenerate nature is one that is opposed to God, one that is a slave to sin, one hat hates and does not seek God..a nature that is under His wrath. So therefore man ISPs free to act according to that nature...
BUT his will us NOT free to against that nature...can a leopard change the color of its spots? Can an apple tree grow oranges?? No it’s against that trees nature...when God regenerates the person He changes that nature and thus brings forth in the person the ability to come to God...
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Before the fall Adam had a free will...he was able to sin and also able to not sin...after the fall man died and loves his sin...so he is in essence able obsin and UNABLE to NOT sin....when a person becomes a believer and are in their glorified state after thy die they are able to not sin and unable o sin
http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/four-fold.html
Thank you Polishprince, it’s amazing how God could “know” us in the past as if it were the present waaaayy back before creation of all things. I cannot wait to learn the mysteries of God (well actually I can but you know, in due time lol)
Mans has a free will to act according to its nature....the unregenerate nature is one that is opposed to God, one that is a slave to sin, one hat hates and does not seek God..a nature that is under His wrath. So therefore man ISPs free to act according to that nature...
It's that attitude that will lose people or the Kingdom. We must all act (and believe) that we ALL can approach God and ask His forgiveness. Every person on this planet, past, present, and future.
Believing that it's just against our nature to approach God, and leave it at that, sets us up for the big excuse: "But You MADE me this way!"
Romans 1:20 says none are without excuse--and that includes the excuse of how we are made. We all have our free will to choose God, we all have been exposed to saving grace, we all have been drawn to Him.
Now we must act on that drawing, and accept Christ.
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