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Thank you, Pope Francis! / Have we entered an age of a new gnosticism?
Fr. Z's blog ^ | 3/30/2013 | Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Posted on 03/30/2013 11:39:36 AM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM

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To: Mrs. Don-o

“But he didn’t, he just did his own thing on the spot.”

He did not do it on the spot. It was announced earlier that he would wash the feet of both women and infidels. It was also announced that it would be closed to the press.


81 posted on 03/30/2013 6:32:07 PM PDT by ebb tide
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Around the world, Bishops and priests come together at their local Cathedrals on Holy Thursday morning to celebrate the institution of the priesthood. During the Mass, the bishop blesses the Oil of Chrism that will be used for Baptism, Confirmation, and Anointing of the sick or dying.

At this Mass, the bishop washes the feet of twelve priests to symbolize Christ’s washing of his twelve Apostles, our first bishops and priests.

From the Catholic News Agency.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/holy-week/holy-thursday/the-significance-of-holy-thursday/


82 posted on 03/30/2013 6:48:22 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

You’re right -— I’m sorry, I expressed that ineptly. Of course it was announced; and the prison officials had to have consulted with the Pope’s aides to select which prisoners would participate. I didn’t really mean “off the top of his head,” I meant without a Motu Proprio or any ‘formal’ change of the rubric.


83 posted on 03/30/2013 6:48:45 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Pray for me, and I shall for you and all your friends, that we may merrily meet in heaven. - T. More)
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To: ebb tide

We’re not talking about the Commandments or the Natural Law. We’re talking about the liturgy.

Obviously, the Pope thought there was a good reason to wash the feet of women. He has the authority to make such a judgment.

Just as obviously, this decision is fraught with risks—primarily the risk of encouraging what is, when done by others, illicit. Is it news that the Pope exercises authority that is not exercised by others?

There is a reason that Popes’ liturgies are traditionally models of formality and correctness—to avoid precisely the kind of misunderstanding—firestorm, even—that has followed the Pope’s Holy Thursday liturgy.

I think Fr. Z’s comments in the last few days—and the comments of Dr. Edward Peters—have been the most enlightening and balanced.


84 posted on 03/30/2013 7:19:42 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a female's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: Arthur McGowan

“He has the authority to make such a judgment.”

And where does he derive that authority from? And what did that Supreme Authority do on the first Holy Thursday?

P.S. The former Cardinal Bergoglio not only disobeyed his Pope, he bad-mouthed him.


85 posted on 03/30/2013 7:45:30 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

At a TLM I attend, the men whose feet are to be washed are prominent members of the parish who wear their Sunday best suits and clean socks. I have always thought it might be better to choose homeless men on the street. On the other hand, now that I have read that it is for disciples, that makes it wrong to wash the feet of Moslems. Jesus did not wash the feet of Judas, correct? When a Moslem imam bends down and washes the feet of the pope, then I will say we are on “equal footing” as to dialogue.


86 posted on 03/30/2013 8:13:28 PM PDT by informavoracious (God help us.)
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To: BlessedBeGod
Yes, this sums up exactly my concern with what he did. You just know there are people out there who now think they can disregard any of the laws of the Church because Francis did it. "So what? He did it, why can't I?"

the CEO of your corporation can do a whole lot of things that you can't...

87 posted on 03/30/2013 8:33:48 PM PDT by terycarl
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To: Mmogamer
As a non-catholic I don’t understand. Would someone in simple english explain what all the hubbubs about?

paranoids worrying about ABSOLUTELY NOTHING !!!!!

88 posted on 03/30/2013 8:38:32 PM PDT by terycarl
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To: ebb tide

Although rooted in historical events, liturgy is not a pictorial or dramatic reenactment of one particular historical event.

When did Cardinal Bergoglio bad-mouth Benedict?


89 posted on 03/30/2013 8:41:02 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a female's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

People seem to forget how Christ saved the prostitue from stoning. That was against custom, too. Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone.

...crickets.


90 posted on 03/30/2013 8:48:46 PM PDT by ImaGraftedBranch (...By reading this, you've collapsed my wave function. Thanks.)
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To: Jim Noble
There are even seminary graduates who apparently feel that varying a liturgical custom and murdering the innocence of a little boy are of the same order of importance. But there is a difference, and the difference is very important

I didn't think that it would take this long for some nitwit to make this association....pathetic

91 posted on 03/30/2013 8:49:35 PM PDT by terycarl
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To: mnehring

Amen.


92 posted on 03/30/2013 8:50:55 PM PDT by ImaGraftedBranch (...By reading this, you've collapsed my wave function. Thanks.)
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To: mnehring
action versus holding on to old tradition and obsessing if he uses the right mass or genuflects correctly

Sounds similar to the things about Jesus, that so shocked the Jews of his time.
93 posted on 03/30/2013 8:54:00 PM PDT by ZX12R
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To: Treeless Branch

Agreed.
Imagraftedbranch.


94 posted on 03/30/2013 8:56:18 PM PDT by ImaGraftedBranch (...By reading this, you've collapsed my wave function. Thanks.)
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To: ImaGraftedBranch

This may come as a shock to you, but the Pope isn’t Christ. He is charged with holding fast, handing on and confirming the brethren, not making up stuff as he goes along.

Sorry, that was kind of snarky, but so were those crickets. :)


95 posted on 03/30/2013 8:58:18 PM PDT by Legatus (Keep calm and carry on)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

Please tell me how I am ignorant.


96 posted on 03/30/2013 9:34:40 PM PDT by Treeless Branch
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

Please tell me how I am ignorant.


97 posted on 03/30/2013 9:34:40 PM PDT by Treeless Branch
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To: mnehring

“Maybe we really are in the end times but the opposite of what many people think. Maybe the Pope is giving us all (Catholics, Protestants, and Anglicans) one final example of humility and Christ-like action versus holding on to old tradition and obsessing if he uses the right mass or genuflects correctly. Will all of us as a universal Christian church humble ourselves or will we grasp on to tradition?”


I’m terrified of the prospect. I don’t view it as “Christ-like” action, but rather as unChrist-like misdirection.

The Gospel isn’t about what YOU can do for CHRIST, it is about what Christ has done for us. Certainly, we have our duty to our neighbors. If a man asks us to walk a mile with him, we should walk twain. But this is not the Gospel. This is not the primary message of Christianity. Whether we walk with a man an extra mile doesn’t matter if he is still going to hell after all is said and done. It is this false focus on works, which every other religion and charity group on the world promotes, except Islam of course, is dangerous insomuch that it is likely to lead even more people astray.
This is the chief sin of the “Emergent church” and social justice groupies here in the States.


98 posted on 03/30/2013 10:15:48 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: informavoracious

I think people are kind of losing sight of the fact that this was a Mass for the benefit of children, albeit in a detention facility. The Pope was not washing the feet of an imam, he was giving a lesson to boys and girls who needed it. He was also not doing mass on worldwide tv.

I think this reminds me of when a judge makes a ruling that is not intended to set any legal precedent, because the situation is a little odd, but is just to be the decision applicable to those parties to the suit. I’m embarrassed to say I’ve forgotten the term for that, but it does happen occasionally, without undermining the general pattern of legal interpretation.


99 posted on 03/31/2013 12:33:44 AM PDT by married21
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To: Mrs. Don-o
But why the special mention of Moslems? I was thinking about this last night. Where is the special mention of our Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, and other "brothers and sisters" who are happy to be one religious group among many without seeking to be the religious group by wiping out, by the sword, all other religions?

As John Paul II did by kissing a Koran, Francis is skating awfully close to violating the first commandment.

100 posted on 03/31/2013 8:57:34 AM PDT by Excellence (9/11 was an act of faith.)
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