Posted on 01/06/2013 3:56:49 PM PST by NYer
Oops, last sentence should be, Do NOT be led astray
#2335 forgot to push send on this a while ago
NOT can be a very big word...sorry
I would say that your “ virtually every Catholic” is not my “actual every Catholic”.
Anyone is free to believe that-—or not.
God is good.
I find it interesting that simply quoting scripture often causes Catholics to apply that immediately to themselves in a negative way.
no there weren't....who would they have followed, these were the 12 hundreds...there were no bibles except those handwritten by the Catholic Church, and they were mostly in libraries....if you were not a Catholic you had probably never even heard of Christianity....there was no Christian "competition" at the time.....if you were Christian, you were Catholic. If you weren't Catholic, you were probably either Jewish or nothing
Catholics believe that Christ is God....and He set in place the Catholic Church to further profess his word....worked well, don’t you think???....its lasted for 2,013 years!
All Catholics are Christians....all who are fully Christian are catholic.
the Pope is the Vicar of Christ on Earth...
I'm ten feet tall and bulletproof...I take no offense to what anyone on a thread like this says....I think that it is so interesting, and educational, that the occasional screw up is almost unnoticed...
I cannot believe that you accuse the Catholic Church of having MANMADE rules etc, when ALL protestant denominations are MANMADE...ever hear of Luther, Zwilgley, Calvin, Henry VIII, et al....the entire denomination was some human beings brainchild....
CALM DOWN!!!!!..please try not to be so harsh on the Catholic clergy until you check out the stats on Protestant clergy, teachers, scout leaders etc...I don't excuse any of them for a moment, but get it straight....all those other groups are FAR more guilty of child molestation than are Catholic clergy.....far more.
No they aren't because none of them pass themselves off as vicars of CHRIST.
Of anybody on the planet, those who claim responsibility for bringing us the Bible, for being the sole voice of Christ on the earth for hundreds or thousands of years, who take the high moral ground are FAR, FAR more responsible in the eyes of God and the world than those who make no such claim to religious and moral superiority.
They are without excuse in the greatest way.
"I don't excuse any of them for a moment, but "...
No *buts*. None at all. That completely negates the first part of the statement you made of *I don't excuse them for a moment....* and it's something we hear all too often from Catholics in their defense of their church.
The only way moral integrity is going to be restored to the Catholic church is to say *I don't excuse them for a moment*.
PERIOD.
No *buts*. None at all.
The appeal of *Hey, we're not as bad as anyone else because more of them do it too*, makes me want to vomit.
Anyone with that attitude is condoning what happened.
The mental, emotional, and SPIRITUAL damage done to those children and their families is inestimable. It is the WORST of the worst kind of betrayal because it absolutely destroys the image of God a child has when someone who claims to represent Him to them victimizes them in that kind of manner.
Until Catholics admit to the seriousness of the situation and renounce it completely and unconditionally, they are part of the problem. Otherwise they come across as being no different than the bishops and cardinals who protected the abusers by shuffling them around to victimize other children.
No they aren't.
The Catholic clergy are far more guilty because they know better.
The issue isn't that it happened. Sadly, stuff like that happens everywhere because there is simply no way of preventing it. Someone bound and determined to molest children WILL find a way.
The real atrocity is the Catholic church turning a blind eye to it, covering it up. protecting the priests, moving them around to molest more unsuspecting boys.
IOW, the RCC enabled the molesters. That makes them just as responsible as if they had done it themselves.
Even in a secular court of law, if someone does not prevent a crime that they know is occurring, they are culpable as well and can be charged and sentenced for the crime.
The Church hierarchy did nothing more than stand outside the door and keep an eye out for witnesses while the crimes were being committed.
And then they have the NERVE to *consecrate* the host, lifting it up in their hands, believing that they are turning the host into the body and blood of Jesus, with those same hands that molested those little boys.
How is that not worse than others doing it? How are teachers and scout leaders far more guilty of crime than that priest?
Thank you for affirming that.
"From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more. - Luke 12:48
LOL! So true. Or, in the case of one of ours, when the doorbell rings.
the word "but" followed a comma thereby meaning that it referred to the following statement having to do with the readers understanding of what I was saying. There was NEVER a "but" referring to the first part of my statement concerning excusing the perps.
There is only one Vicar of Christ on Earth and that is the Pope.
Thanks for confirms what was obvious to the objective reader.
The teachers, ministers etc. are not "more guilty" nor did I say that...there were just more of them.
the Catholic church did not handle the situation as well as should have been expected, but they've certainly gotten a handle on it and now have very strict methods concerning future possible situations.
the effecacy of a sacrament does not depend on the state of sin which the minister of that sacrament is in....it probably effects his own soul, but not the sacrament. Consecration, even by a man who is not in the state of grace is no less effective than by a man in perfect harmony with God.
Thanks you for your necessary superintendence. You have been busy.
You’re welcome. Thanks for your support.
Sorry, anyone who truly believes that is deluded because, if the Roman Catholic Church WERE the same one begun in the first century they would have stayed true to the Gospel and remained faithful to the truth established by Jesus and enscripturated by the Apostles and their disciples. What calls itself the Catholic Church today only vaguely resembles what Christ established and that's ONLY because of some of the doctrines that they still teach but which MANY other churches also teach. It is obvious to me that Scripture defines the church as the ENTIRE Body of Christ for all time and it certainly would not be confined to the one that not only ceased to proclaim the message of salvation by grace through faith to the world, but also persecuted those who did and which continues to this day to exclude from fellowship those who are genuinely in Christ.
All the talk of "Ecumenicalism" and restoring Christian unity is no more than a trick for everyone having to agree to bow the knee to Rome and accept the Pope as the leader of Christendom. For nearly one thousand years, the Eastern Orthodox have not been bribed or cajoled into this Faustian bargain and if they will not, it's a good bet the rest of Christianity won't be either. I certainly will not.
You can often find quotes for both sides among CFs, but as regards 1st c. literacy rates, these are very speculative, yet they were higher among Jews than slaves for instance.
http://www.evidenceforchristianity.org/were-people-literate-in-the-time-of-jesus-r/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus#Literacy
I need to be more appreciative that i can both read and hear the Word.
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