Posted on 12/06/2012 3:46:27 AM PST by yinandyang
Your quote is an example of why Jews find it difficult to completely trust Christian action. We hear two messages. The first is of love. The second is that we are doomed to Hell if we do not accept Jesus.
Justifying the Holocaust and Inquisition and everything else is exactly why I have trouble with what some Christians believe.
Explain something:
If Jesus is Lord, then he knew he was going to be killed and his murder serves a function in Christian theology. How can it be worth a Holocaust if it was all pre-ordained anyway?
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Thanks - educational post
You are correct in your supposition
could you post the mistakes in the article?
Jesus wasn't created in the Pharisee's own image.
One would think that Jesus would have developed a distinctly “Christian” way to pray. But he didn’t. The Lord’s Prayer is a decidedly Hebrew prayer, universal in scope.
With Christians, a Jew is always waiting for the other shoe to drop. When will talk of Christian love turn into raging righteous ‘justified’ murderous action? It’s always lurking.
Well, to be honest, whenever someone says that, I just tell them to take it up with the Guy who said it. Yes, of course His message is “love”, but since when does “love” mean “let people do what they like when they like”? Parents love their kids and reign them in, guide them, sometimes punish them.
Surely, as a Jew, that’s far from an alien concept to you seeing as how God has repeatedly done that to Israel over the millenia.
Paul was not a Gentile, although he was a Roman citizen. He preached to the Gentiles, but he was not one—from his own mouth:
Philippians 3:5-7 (NASB)
“...circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee;as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ.”
I’ve wondered if the Apostle Paul could have been in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus’ crucifixion. Also, Mary’s line could have been from the House of David AND Aaron. Elizabeth, Mary’s relative, was married to Zechariah who was OBVIOUSLY a priest. John the Baptist was a Levite.
Jews make a choice on purpose all the way back to the New Testament. The pharisees, priests, etc. assumed Jesus was from Nazareth and was a Galilean, never asking what city he was actually BORN in.
Paul was the first Gentile Apostle. :)
Actually you miss a very large part of why Christians believe Jesus is the foretold Messiah. Because of what He HAS DONE for US.
We have a personal relationship, with a savior, who points to the Old and New Testament, that is undeniable in our own personal lives.
Messianic Jews learn from the Torah as well. Lots of people believe in the prophecies of the Torah.
It might be your denominations’s understanding that the Torah is not prophecy- but that is not universal.
In fact Billions of people do not agree with you, throughout history.
If he was not the messiah, then he didn't do anything for you.
We have a personal relationship, with a savior, who points to the Old and New Testament, that is undeniable in our own personal lives.
The only reason you even believe in J*sus is because you believe the "new testament" is inspired scripture. Naturally with this as your fundamental assumption you're going to see J*sus "pointing to" the "old and new testaments."
Messianic Jews learn from the Torah as well. Lots of people believe in the prophecies of the Torah.
I also believe in the prophecies of the Torah--the real ones, not the "new testament's" retrojected assumptions. The Torah prophecies that terrible punishments (including worldwide exile and cessation of the sacrifices) awaits Israel for abandoning the Torah (not a word about "rejecting the messiah"). Your assumption that the Torah is a temporary "preparation" for chrstianity is an assumption on your part, and a horribly distorted and incorrect one.
It might be your denominations’s understanding that the Torah is not prophecy- but that is not universal.
I don't have a "denomination." That's a chrstian thing. And as I said, I do believe the prophecies, but the Torah doesn't prophesy J*sus. The "new testament" claims that it does, and you accept this because you accept the "new testament" from the outset.
In fact Billions of people do not agree with you, throughout history.
What kind of argument is that? The opinions of "billions of people" who disagree with me disproves what I'm saying? Billions of people believe a lot of nonsense--idolatry, evolution, communism . . . you name it.
You don't believe in J*sus because the "old testament" prophesies him. You believe in him because your bible has a "new testament" in it.
I do not believe that God does things to Israel or anyone else, at least not to a point where we can discern the specifics.
Are you saying that God has punished Israel through the years? If so, why?
"Punished" in that He doesn't help them out of the jams their disobedience created in the first place (not unlike what's happening in the U.S. right now).
Why? Do I really know more about the Old Testament than you do?
I’m sorry to be the one to tell you that none of that is true at all. You may be missing a very rich and beautiful story- but it is your choice to listen.
I am an Old Testament, Torah girl, and the argument is that your statement is not universal finding that the Torah is not about prophecy. In fact, it is divided into sections to highlight the prophets.
The Old Testament is a beautiful love story about God’s love and the promise of Jesus.
I love every single word of the Old Testament, Torah. There is no way for me to read the book of Daniel, for starters, and not see it as a current day prophecy.
Even Leviticus points to prophecy and Jesus.
I love the New Testament as well, but I spend my time in the Old Testament, personally.
You do have a denomination. Christianity is Judaism. They are inseparable.
The reason I believe in Jesus is because I know He is alive. Just like the disciples who have actually died for their faith.
Jesus is alive to us and that takes pretty intense faith- and not at all based on a few words in a book.
That is illogical to believe people would die for a handful of verses.
Was the Holocaust punishment for their disobedience or is punishment confined to only one region?
If Christianity is Judaism then Martin Luther and all that followed and follow him are headed to a bad place according to Christian doctrine. Or am I missing something with this assumption?
You are going to have to be more specific. I am not sure what you are referring to.
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