Catholic Conservatives and the Obama’s re-election

November 7, 2012 | Annalex

[annalex]

Ping to your lists, if you will.

[JCBreckenridge]

Agreed, we dodged a bullet. Better to have one party opposing Obamacare than two parties that support it.

But man, we paid an awful cost in the senate last night.

[dila813]

Catholic Conservatives include Hispanics, large parts of the Catholic Church have created the moral hazard that it is ok to use the force of government to steal the fruits of another man’s labor for others.

In other words, steal for good.

Morally and Ethically, this should have been struck down and these people drummed out of the Church, but they weren’t.

SO... You have many Hispanic Catholics fooled into thinking it is ok for them to be conservative in their beliefs yet vote this way in their secular lives to get free stuff for themselves and their kin.

This is the same thinking of someone breaking into a foreclosed home to steal the fridge, they are taking from rich corrupt banks for the poor .... yet these rich banks are owned by both the rich and the poor ... and regardless it is still wrong without any justification.

This is the decline of the Catholic Church and the Conservatives in Society at large .... these two are related to the same cause.

[annalex]

Catholic Conservatives include Hispanics

Indeed they do but they do not include thieves.

[dila813]

My deepest hope for the Church is a declaration from the Pope that voting for a candidate in order to extract an gain from others ... is an ill-gotten gain .... theft ... and a sin against God.

[dila813]

I think you know what I am trying to say.

[annalex]

we paid an awful cost in the senate last night.

Yes, and that, too should be something for the GOP to learn from. For example, the unprecedented hounding of Akin by the GOP establishment was shameful.

Someone on Salvation's Daily Mass thread urged us not to post such things because social libertarians (his term) look at them and it might frighten them away from Romney. This is the cost of centrism.

[defconw]

I think that if the Bishops will not enforce the rules, then I must leave the church. I am saddened but with this marxist social justice theology now so prevelant, I have no choice.

[annalex]

Why, we have one. Here's an overview:

John Paul II claims, following Pope Leo XIII, that human persons have rights that flow from the dignity granted to them by their nature. These rights, the Pope says, are inalienable and proper to every human person. Though the rights of human persons are many, for the sake of his argument the Pope names some that are specific. Among those that he names, there are five that are principally violated by socialism: the owning of private property, forming of professional associations, the limiting of working hours, the receiving of a just wage, and the discharge of one's religious duties (6-7). The Pope asserts that all these rights are natural, or in other words proper to man by his nature. For instance, the Pope cites that it is natural or proper for man to meet in associations with fellow men inasmuch as man is a social being. Also the Pope notes that these natural rights precede any cooperation with political or civil authority. Precedence is given to these right lies in their root in other inalienable right that are possessed by the human person. The chief rights to life, liberty and property allow for the specific rights that the Pope discusses to exist. This discussion of natural rights and precedence flows forth into a discussion about the relationship between people as individuals and the state. The Pope concludes with an affirmation of the individual human person. With his dignity and inalienable rights, the human person holds precedence over the institution or society as a whole. For it is the job of the State to protect the natural rights of its individual citizens and to supply the means for the attainment of the personal good (7). The State must be fair and equal and work to obtain good inasmuch as it is possible for each of its individual members (9).

From Pope John Paul II's Critique of Socialism. References are to the source: CENTESIMUS ANNUS

[An American In Dairyland]

Rome doesn’t police the American Catholic Church as it should be done. If it had Biden, Pelosi, Kerry and his awful wife, and most of the Kennedy’s would have been publicly ex-communicated long ago. The Catholic Church of my childhood no longer exists in the US and apparently not in Rome either.

[annalex]

also

Lured, in fine, by the greed of present goods, which is ‘the root of all evils, which some coveting have erred from the faith’ (1 Tim. 6:10.3), they assail the right of property sanctioned by natural law; and by a scheme of horrible wickedness, while they seem desirous of caring for the needs and satisfying the desires of all men, they strive to seize and hold in common whatever has been acquired either by title of lawful inheritance, or by labor of brain and hands, or by thrift in one's mode of life.” (Encyclical Quod Apostolici Muneris, December 28, 1878, n. 1)

More at What the Popes Have to Say About Socialism. The encyclical quoted: QUOD APOSTOLICI MUNERIS

[dila813]

I know what this means, but this is too vague for most of the uneducated masses.

The Bishops and Priests are supposed to teach but instead have advocated many of the Democrat Social Programs because they benefited the poor without realizing by doing so, they were advocating the confiscation of other people’s property for this purpose.

It is a problem of specificity and ignorance.

[annalex]

if the Bishops will not enforce the rules, then I must leave the church

That's a non-sequitur. The church is there to lead you to salvation, not to police the rules. I agree with your frustration and share it, but there is but one Holy Church.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"I think that if the Bishops will not enforce the rules, then I must leave the church."

No, think that through again. It makes as little sense as to say

• "Because some of my fellow soldiers are slackers, then I must be a deserter."
• "Because some of them are deficient, I must be totally delinquent."
• "Because Judas betrayed Him and Peter denied Him, I must abandon the Apostles."
• "Because there are too many who are unfaithful to the Church, I'm leaving the Church."

Mind the tagline:

[defconw]

I concede your point. But, when i stand before God seething with anger and suspicion about the people I must wish peace to, I am hardly being christian let alone catholic.

[defconw]

I hear you, but Pelosi, Biden, Kennedy ad nauseum. They get to be in good standing? REALLY? I am adrift and demoralized today. Minnesota also rejected the marriage amendment. The Republic is in peril and so is the church.

[annalex]

Well, it's a tricky thing that peace.

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple (Luke 14:26)

[14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and breaking down the middle wall of partition, the enmities in his flesh: [15] Making void the law of commandments contained in decrees; that he might make the two in himself into one new man, making peace;[16] And might reconcile both to God in one body by the cross, killing the enmities in himself (Ephesians 2)

Peace is a person. Same person as the Truth. Have peace with Him, and who partakes of Him along with you, then he has the same peace as you do, and he who does not partake of Him rejected the peace through no fault of your own.

Anger is but a passion. Mortify it. "If by the Spirit you mortify the deeds of the flesh, you shall live" (Romans 8:13)

[Mrs. Don-o]

Pelosi and Biden, as I understand it, both have a monitum from their bishops not to approach for Holy Communion (don't have time to look that up now, but I think I can find it in the archives) --- and Kennedy is dead. Ted, that is.

I have a certain disgust about sloth and cowardice in high places, but I'm afraid I come under the same indictment. The solution isn't to abandon ship. The solution goes like this: To our knees. Then: to our feet.

[annalex]

I agree.