Posted on 03/11/2012 4:27:55 PM PDT by Heart-Rest
“Issue 9 - Do Catholics teach and believe that they can save themselves, or that salvation comes from God alone?”
Other contentious variants aside, the doctrine of Purgatory utterly undermines Christ’s sacrifice and purpose: if one isn’t “too bad”, one can avoid the whole salvation thing by just hanging out in the neutral zone for a few thousand years (heck, it’s vs forever so no big deal), then moving on to Heaven. Only the really evil go to Hell under this doctrine, which guts the utter depravity of all sin and makes most sins forgettable in time. All this in stark contrast to Christ’s declaration of one way, and that mere subdued hatred is indistinguishable from outright murder.
Agreed! The Church is the “Body of Christ” on earth. He knows those that are His, and one day He will present us, His bride without spot and wrinkle!
He is cleaning out the spots and pressing out the wrinkles now!
“Issue 10 - The Biblical meaning of “Church””
Do not confuse what God considers “his own” with what men declare as such. I am not your friend just because I say I am.
Not just ‘catholicism,’ but any clearly false representation of ‘christianity.’
If Christ isn’t there, I’m against it.
May I suggest you prepare a rebuttal of The 95 Thesies rather than setting up carefully worded straw-man arguments.
That was an incredibly revolutionary act.
Obama can't appreciate that ~ he imagines that the Catholics just bullied their way in or something and now it's his job to kick them in the teeth.
We really gotta' get rid of that guy this next election.
No, we are children of God only by the righteousness of Christ, and Mary is not God.
His teachings are recorded in this Gospel, and in the other three Gospels--plus the epistles of Paul and the Apostles. But when Paul talks of the "word"--he is not talking of the New Testament, since it was not yet in existence. And when he used "scriptures"--he was refering to the Old Testament.
Yet, God does use the "word" as it was given to Moses, to His prophets, and through Jesus to the Apostles--to teach us. But, as Jesus told His disciples, He also sends His Holy Spirit to teach us, as is recorded in John 14:26:
"But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."
One could argue Jesus was talking ONLY to His disciples--but that could easily be seen as limiting being "born from above" to a small group of men, and negating the clear message of the Gospels, especially John 3:16, that salvation is "by grace through faith" for ALL who "receive Him [Jesus], and believe in His name."
And, it is interesting that while verse 9 of Ephesians:
"For it is by grace you have been saved through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast"
is so often quoted, the VERY NEXT verse is not:
"For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God preapred in advance for us to do."
Grace that "saves us" is a gift of God we can NEVER earn--it comes only from what Christ did for us on the cross. But the way we can show our own gratitude--gratias--for this undeserved gift is through faith. And in this faith, we can be about the business of "working out" our salvation, and not working FOR it.
BTW--thanks for this thread. I really enjoyed reading all the comments! God bless you!
he is 100% correct, and well spoken at the same time. You say you didn't read his article, but feel free to condemn it. If only protestants would properly research their beginnings, they would flock to Catholicism in droves.....many do now, and in our lifetime, I expect the church of England to, as a body, return home. The Catholic church existed for 1,500 years before the revolution took place....(notice I didn't say reformation!!)
“On the other hand, I also think it is important that we try to clear up areas where some people clearly misunderstand the teachings of the Catholic Church completely.”
And vice versa Catholics misunderstanding of the Protestants and also Orthodox and the Messianic Jewish movements.... all of us each with one another!
Yes lots of misunderstandings to be cleared up....when Christ shall “enter into his temple with purging fire and hyssop soap”!
I don’t know if you’ve seen the news lately but it hasn’t been the protestants that have been attacking the church. Its the anti christ in the White House and his demonic liberal following who want to destroy the church, and by the way some of his minions are catholic...i.e. Pelosi, Biden....
The doctrine is literal physical transubstantiation. That this is untrue is plain to any who partake. Redefining terms does not change the objective truth.
Argue theological semantics if you like; plain objective truth is it does not change from bread to flesh and from wine to blood.
He did not have them chew on his arm.
Peter never once disputed the validity of the writing of Matthew. As a matter of fact my King James has two books attributed to Peter and seems to me Peter put down into ‘writing’ what he bound here on this earth.
Now what did Matthew write that is so offensive to Catholics? I figure I might as well learn as much as I can now, what Matthew and the other ‘elected’ authors were inspired to pen, so I do not have so much home work when I return to the Maker.
Peter never ever once prayed to Mary. So Peter did not bind that tradition that is preached as Gospel these days.
And there are 7 churches listed in Revelation not one.
The Lord Jesus did clarify it all in:
“It is the Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.” (John 6:63)
Are you opposed to the recitation of Scripture?
Eventually you give up trying so in Catholic High School, I learned how to work the system. Party Friday night and go to confession on Saturday. In confession tell the little sins and then say to the priest; forgive me father for these sins and ALL the sins of my past. I was covered.
Then someone told me that God loved me and and that Jesus would have died for me, if I was the only one who needed it. They shared scripture and it came alive. I am an Evangelical Christian and KNOW thought I am right with God. No I am not perfect, but my savior who I trust for my salvation, is. God is alive in my life and I want to live for Him. I know my purpose and am not afraid to die; not that I want to suffer, but after death I know I'm ok.
There are lots of reasons I left the church, besides the priest who did not want me to read the bible. I watched the church partnering with pro-abortion and pro-gay democrats. The parishioners, many who were hurting decent people, they judged harshly, while they let people who were legislating sin, call themselves Catholic, and receive the sacraments. I wondered why the church never talked about abortion, homosexuality, purity......when I saw the church allow pro-abortion politicians speak at there churches, I realized they did not walk the walk. There were other reasons I left, but the church made it seem like, you must follow the rule exactly, but we can have our liberal, pro-abortion friends and help them.
I think the Catholic Church has changed in recent years for the better. You have priest and lay, out there fighting the pro-life and pro-family battles. Churches I use to attend are having bible studies and prayer for our country. I had never seen the church do this before and it surprised me. I see so many Catholic here on FR quoting scripture and making God's word come alive in their lives. I am so happy for them, that they are getting fed the word of God. I pray for my old church. If the church leaders actually started taking action, not just speaking out, against those politicians who are LEGISLATING sin in our country, what a different country we would have and my prayers for the church would be answered; Then they would be walking the walk.
"Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?” So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him." - John 6:52-56
If it involves chanting them over and over again like you are reciting your name and address, yes.
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