Posted on 11/23/2011 11:11:08 AM PST by marshmallow
so just believing Jesus Christ is the Son of God is insufficient to save you?
*****wouldn’t you think that if God intended Mary to have the co-equality with Christ that the catholic church preaches****
Well, there’s your first mistake, that is not what the Church teaches or preaches.
****then you’d also expect of course she’d be at the very least mentioned or included throughout the scriptures as Jesus is****
Actually, she is. At the momentous occasion of Jesus’ conception.
At His birth.
At the first miracle He performed at her request.
With Him at the foot of the cross.
and she was with the Apostles when the Holy Spirit came upon them.
That doesn’t even include the mentions of her in the OT prophesies about her.
****had you been paying attention****
My attention is 100% upon the errors of your posts.
****by doing so you dethrone Christ by your practices and worship of her****
Mary sits at the right hand of her Son, who sits at the right hand of the Father.
****Now you can popcorn all the scripture accounts you want to justify to yourself your belief that Mary is coequal with Christ...and in some cases even superior to.****
Another error as to what the Church holds and preaches. My justification is from Christ.
****She addresses God as HER SAVIOR, just so you recognize she acknowledges her need of one...so the catholic teaching she’s sinless is baloney****
More evidence that protestants have no idea what they are talking about. Mary’s sinless nature was a singular gift of grace from God to prepare her to bear the Incarnated Word of God. She was never stained with original sin therefore she did not have the propensity to sin that comes from the original sin.
Her salvation came at the moment of her conception, not because of who Mary was, but because of who JESUS is. Always and everything about Mary is first and foremost about her Son.
She is coequal with Jesus only in the same way all who believe in Him and are saved are, as coequal heirs to the inheritance of eternal life in God.
Protestant theology is like a cardboard cutout, no substance and no thought other than “I claim salvation for myself”.
It matters not if you or any here attack me for my faith, but at least get that faith straight and attack me for what I truly believe.
don’t confuse him with facts.
*****and the bible is clear the scriptures are the ultimate authority.******
Scripture where this is clearly stated.
Timothy doesn’t cut it, cause Timothy doesn’t say that.
Rather, Timothy says, “The church is the bullwark and pillar of truth.”
Christ distinguished an authority over me and all believers when He gave to the Apostles the keys which only He had the authority to give.
I believe in Christ, I believe what He said and I believe those who have led His Church because of that.
Think of that and me whatever you wish, it makes no difference to me or my life in Christ.
Dear Caww,
I jumped in this discussion on your words: “What we do Not do is make an idol of her...pray to her...bow down to her...or call her equal to the savior in any way shape or form. Nor do we call her “the Holy Mother Of God’... as if God needed a mother.”
And the mushy headed ignorant wrong slurs against my Church, the Incarnate Word, His mother, the Most Holy Trinity, orthodox Christian Beliefs, the creeds, etc. just continue. These have not been apologized for, re-canted, or just dropped; if anything, they’ve increased.
Without defenders of the faith it would not exists for the ‘reformers’ to tinker with. I’ve defended them on the silly internet, the real Christian martyrs defended the very same faith with their lives.
Anyway, next from you comes ‘do you have the salvation I have,” and “but do you know Christ personally like I do...”
Condescension? Please...
Now, let’s discuss the issues all you wish, enough with the personal, I’m making my responses to your beliefs and your attacks on mine. If my responses are too sharp, there’s an easy way to avoid them. Stop attacking my faith and the Church.
Talk about how very wonderful yours is or something.
Archbishop Sheen knew of what he was speaking when he said that most who hate the Church do so because of what they think she teaches rather than what she actually teaches.
I am done here for the night, but thanks for your contributions to the deposit of truth so sorely needed on this thread and others like it.
Blessed be God forever.
What Jvette said, times two.
I’m off.
Blessed be God forever.
Amen!
****Nothing we can’t learn from reading Scripture or the leading of the Holy Spirit, which makes Mary redundant at best.*****
You realize that what I posted is FROM Scripture. Obviously, God felt there was something we could learn from Mary about Her son or those words would not have been included in His word.
Redundant? At best?
I am honestly at a loss on this one. I cannot imagine a hatred for anything, so intense that one would refer to the mother of Jesus as “redundant, at best.”
I will no longer accept the claim that it is the Catholic’s “worship” of Mary which is attacked and not Mary herself.
That sentence says it all loud and clear.
metmom..."Nothing we can't learn from reading Scripture or the leading of the Holy Spirit, which makes Mary redundant at best."
From that exchange you get..."I cannot imagine a hatred for anything, so intense..." You actually think metmom hates Mary herself intensely?
I think that you cannot be serious.It's obvious what metmom meant and the fact that you jumped so high at that ill-perceived slight says more about your feelings for Mary than it does metmom's.
Mitch, we don’t see you that much on these threads but metmom has made her opinion clear multiple times. jvette is not over reacting, I stand with her on her love for rhe Jewish maid who bore the Savior, and against metmom who reliably belittes the Mother of God and our praise of her. The next step from metmom is predictably to accuse Catholics of worshipping a dead woman.
One of the things that people most marveled at about Jesus was that he “spoke with authority”... whereas the scribes and Pharisees did NOT when they taught.
Jesus said he was under the Father’s authority and he therefore spoke with an authority that no one had ever encountered...... ‘All things are under Christ’s authority’ ...and we as His sons and daughters have His authority because he gave it to us.
Therefore, we can preach the good news to the poor,... proclaim freedom to the prisoners,... recovery of sight to the blind, ..release the oppressed, and proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.
Whatever we do, we do in his name and for His glory. It is not simply a matter of faith. It is a matter of acting on His behalf, with His authority, and for that reason alone, He moves.
The more confidence we have in trusting that we are His agents....His ambassadors to the world around us.... the more He will be able to move through us.
(author unknown)
This is where I stand on the issue of authority....
I said ...Both..read again.
I said ...Both..read again.
It is the responsibility of every believer to read the Bible and check to see if those teaching them are true to the Bible..
(courtesy ping to thomas)
Jesus warned us of of repetition in prayer....most Christians don’t need a canned prayer to talk with Christ or pray to Him....nor a parade of leadership to get them into the mood for worshipping him in order to partake of communion.
As for your church saying Mary is equal or above Christ..I will NOT apologize...here’s just one book of your Bishops quotes:
“All power is given to thee in Heaven and on earth, so that at the command of Mary all obey even God . . . and thus . . . God has placed the whole Church . . . under the dominion of Mary” (pp. 180-181).
“The way of salvation is open to none otherwise than through Mary, and since our salvation is in the hands of Mary . . . he who is protected by Mary will be saved, he who is not will be lost” (pp. 169-170).
“Mary is called...the gate of heaven because no one can enter that blessed kingdom without passing through her (p. 160).
“Mary is our life . . . Mary in obtaining this grace for sinners by her intercession, thus restores them to life” (p.80).
“And she is truly a mediatress of peace between sinners and God. Sinners receive pardon by . . . Mary alone”.... (pp. 82-83).
(’The Glories of Mary,’.... was written by a Bishop of the Roman Catholic Church....St. Alphonsus de Liguori, He was made a Saint by the Roman Catholic Church.)
Here again...catholic teachings continued to enter the church and be declared.....man determined these teachings...the apostles never taught these and neither did Christ Jesus.
The beginning of the exaltation of Mary, and the first use of the term “Mother of God” by the Council of Ephesus...431.
Prayers began to be offered to Mary, dead saints, and angels...600.
The Immaculate Conception of Mary was proclaimed by Pope Pius IX.... 1854.
Pius XI reaffirmed the doctrine that Mary is “The Mother of God” ...1931.
The dogma of the Assumption of Mary was proclaimed by Pope Pius XII...1950.
Mary proclaimed the Mother of the Church by Pope Paul VI...1965.
http://solochristo.com/theology/Church/cc/cciv.htm
I never said that. Stop putting words into my mouth I didn't say.
I don't post much but I do read all of these threads and I've read enough of metmom's posts to know that she does not hate Mary.
Thanks for your reply JA,it's good that you stand with Jvette,it's what brethren do.However,none of us would want to reinforce error.
Grace and peace to you.
This has never been and never will be a part of Orthodox teaching by the One True Church and anyone who says or implies that it is taught is either deliberately denying the facts they can easily find and have been told or is lying to try and convince others of the untruth they want to spread as part of their propaganda campaign that aids their attacks on Christ Himself, not Mary.
have a nice day
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