Posted on 10/30/2011 11:29:04 AM PDT by narses
I'll take an honest appeal to general revelation over a heretical interpretation of special revelation any day!
The concept of purgatory indicates a debt that needs to be paid. Christ paid that debt. For someone to assume that guilt is to step away from the grace of God.
Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
God imputes righteousness without works.
Romans 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
We obtain that righteousness while here on earth, not after we die.
Jesus was made sin for us.
2 Corinthians 5: 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Why would anyone reject what Jesus did for us and try to do it themselves when we are told that’s impossible? We know that we already have righteousness through faith.
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
So it’s impossible to please God without faith, and faith already gives us the righteousness that is required by Him why would anyone reject God’s freely given righteousness to once again return to the law of works which we know doesn’t even please Him?
On the cross Jesus last words were “it is finished”.
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
In the Greek, the phrase, “it is finished”, is written as one word – “tetelestai”. In english that means “paid in full”. By claiming that people go to purgatory to either pay for their sins or have someone else pay for them they are calling Jesus a liar.
“Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ” (Romans 8:1)
Psalm 103:12 as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.
Even Catholic agree that if we accept Christ we are “in Christ”. If we are then in Christ and are told that there “is no condemnation for those who are in Christ” and our sins are removed “as far as the east is from he west”, what are we judged on? 1 Corinthians 3:15 is talking about the fact that since we are no longer condemned we will not stand before Christ in judgment of sin but rather in judgment of our service to Him for our rewards
If we are justified by faith we will not only escape damnation but in Hebrews we are told that God will not even remember our sins.
Hebrews 10:17 Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.
We are also told in Hebrews that once we accept Jesus sacrifice there is no more offering for sin. Not on this earth and not in some place called purgatory.
Hebrews 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
No purgatory.
To each his own! BTW, perusing the pro-Protestant headlined threads on the forum today, I see a lot of very tendentious Catholic input (trolls?). The Catholic caucus is left pretty much alone by Protestants.
So I guess Jesus himself didn’t have all that much to say about salvation, hmmmmmm?
Caucus threads are left alone by their opponents by definition, or didn’t you get the memo?
Similarly, threads that are used to criticize the theological opposition automatically lose caucus status and become “open.”
Consult the Religion Moderator’s homepage to get a clue.
Happily! Give me the link or just quote the policy.
2. Thin skinned RF posters should stick with the “closed” threads. I can and do intercede to keep posters from “making it personal.” There is nothing I can do to prevent a poster from “taking it personal.” And, frankly, many posters come to the RF with huge chips on their shoulders. Such posters are as guilty of causing flame wars as the ones who actually do “make it personal.”
3. “Closed” threads on the Religion Forum include devotionals, prayer threads and caucuses. The header of the thread should make it obvious that the thread is closed, i.e. like a church meeting behind closed doors. Such assemblies will not be disturbed. Any challenges or ridicule will be removed. Any thread can be designated a caucus - e.g. labeled as a “[Catholic Caucus]” or “[LDS Caucus]” - provided that neither the article nor any of the posts challenge or ridicule any other confession. These are “safe harbors” for those who are easily offended or are ill equipped to defend their own confession.
It is disingenuous to complain that your confession is being maligned when you are NOT using the caucus designation to protect the thread from challenges!
4. All other threads on the Religion Forum are “Open” which means they are like a town square. Challenges and ridicule will occur. Expect them to be contentious, rough or even insulting. Your confession will be maligned on open threads. Your beloved religious figures will be ridiculed. Don’t complain because the author or a religious figure is called a liar, demon, heretic or whatever on an open thread. It is to be expected in the town square. Remember too that the Religion Forum is densely populated with highly educated theologians. If you are ill-equipped to defend your confession, you’ll get beat up on “Open” thread. When in doubt, ping one of your best defenders and withdraw to a “Closed” thread.
For whatever it’s worth, when my mother-in-law died, we received several beautiful cards indicating that a mass had been “paid for” to be said for her after death. I have to agree with what you say here. It really reminds me of the whole indulgences fiasco.
Exactly so. One either has faith or one doesn’t. There are no half measures, and you can’t work your way to Heaven from here, Hell or purgatory.
I enjoyed reading the thread’s main article, but I thank you - and bless you - for the scriptures you posted in your comment.
Amen, Colonel.
The Plan of Salvation is so simple anyone would need help to misunderstand it. Apparently, that’s where priests come in.
>>For whatever it’s worth, when my mother-in-law died, we received several beautiful cards indicating that a mass had been “paid for” to be said for her after death. <<
Did you know that I can walk into my parish and get a mass said for anyone without paying one thin dime? Have you ever heard of “Free Will donations”? Catholics may pay for the card or donate to an organization or priest to say a Holy Mass in order to cover expenses, but if one would like a Holy Mass said for a loved one who passes, we do not have to “pay” for them. With that, I have NEVER seen a card from anywhere that says a Holy Mass was “paid for”. You made an assumption, period.
There are many of the Protestant churches also who seem to have gone astray and left their “first love”. It is becoming more and more evident that we must rely on Jesus alone, as it was in the beginning and is intended to be, rather than rely on what so called leadership in organized “religion”. I rely more and more each day on the words of our Lord and the Apostles He appointed. The words they wrote with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit are the only source we dare go to other than the Holy Spirit within us who guides to all truth.
All it takes is a childlike faith...
If we’re gonna keep purgatory, why don’t we keep “indulgences,” too? How much do I have to “pay” for my sins?
So simply quoting scripture is “my own interpretation”?
thanks
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.