My Faith: Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN), from Catholic to Muslim

CNN ^ | 9/1/11 | Chris Welch

[WPaCon]

Another observation is that Catholic Caucus threads hardly ever seem respected anymore. It makes the whole caucus system virtually pointless.

[bronx2]

Replacement theology is one of their manufactured weasel words. It is a word used by the likes of Harold Camping /Rapture/ friends of Israel. They like to bandy it about and their biblical defense of same belief defies rationality. This belief is only superseded by their belief in UFO"s. They think they will convert the Jew to Jesus but in reality most Jews today are secular humanist agnostics who despise God and Christianity.

These rapture types have created their own theological basis for belief which is really Beyond Belief. Read Alan Dershowitz "Vanishing American Jew" to understand the place of religion in the life of most Jews and how these rapture types/ friends of Israel, are in essence ridiculed by most of the secular Jews.

The beliefs held by this bunch is a joke and any serious discussion with them is pointless.

[metmom]

If all else fails, bail.

[MarkBsnr]

Calvinism is Bible based Christianity not re-branded Islam.

Only if you consider proof texting snippets of Scripture set in an Islamic pudding mould Christianity. Besides, Judaizers were condemned back as far as Acts.

Islam has nothing to do with the Abrahamic Covenant. Ishmael was born to Abram not to Abraham. (look it up in the WORD)

That is the word. The WORD is Jesus. Anyhow, saying that Abram is not Abraham is like saying that Simon is not Peter.

And also as usual, you have presented snippets which seem different than they are supposed to be from the words of our Lord. Let us see the passage in context:

Mark 12: * 28One of the scribes,i when he came forward and heard them disputing and saw how well he had answered them, asked him, “Which is the first of all the commandments?” 29Jesus replied, “The first is this: ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is Lord alone! 30You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’j 31The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”k 32The scribe said to him, “Well said, teacher. You are right in saying, ‘He is One and there is no other than he.’ 33And ‘to love him with all your heart, with all your understanding, with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself’ is worth more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”l

Your snippet would seem to say that we should preclude the Trinity.

[metmom]

I didn’t expect you could find any.

[metmom]

Have you noticed that she ridicules “old men in dresses” as if they could not interpret Holy Scripture, even better than she?

Where have I ever ridiculed *old men in dresses*? Show me the post.

[Jvette]

I do not wish to be drawn into a debate with metmom. I said many months ago I will not respond to her because of another time we were in a discussion which turned ugly on her part and I have no wish to put myself in a position where I might commit a sin out of anger or defensiveness nor to be used by her to curry favor with the usual suspects or puff herself up.

I told her at the time I would never respond to her again and I haven’t and will not do so now.

I ping her here only out of courtesy and respect for the rules and because in this instance I am going to defend what she wrote, though I don’t disagree with your assessment.

She is correct in what she wrote, but it is not that which makes Mary unique, singular and deserving of our love and devotion. God has honored Mary in a way He has not honored us and so we honor her in a way we honor no other.

She alone bore the Savior of the world in her womb and it is from her that He received His earthly flesh. That makes her unique and it is because of that she received what we hope for in a way we do not. Grace at the moment of her conception and assumption into heaven, body and soul at the moment of her death.

[metmom]

Yup, no Scriptural support.

Yes, Eve ate first but sin didn’t enter until Adam ate. That doesn’t mean that sin entered through Eve, nor that she was responsible. Adam was responsible. God gave the instructions to him to carry out. It was his responsibility to pass them on correctly to Eve, which he apparently did not do.

And Mary? She is highly favored. And? Nobody is disputing that part of it. It would be an honor for anyone to be chosen to carry the Christ child. And nothing more than that. That doesn’t warrant the adulation heaped on her that the attributes attributed to her that have no Scriptural support.

[MarkBsnr]

It never ceases to amaze me what length the anti-Catholics will go to to distort the history of the Church and the history of individual Catholics to make a point. Historically speaking, a generation is approximately 20 years. Your own post confirms that Mark was right.

Very good, sir. Well played.

None of the works cited by you or me contain a listing of which books must be included in the Bible or excluded from it. Many of the excluded works contained inspired content. It took the Church many more generations to sort out the Canon of Scripture. So what is your point?

I anticipate antiCatholicism, but I will defer to the gentleman as he answers in his own words.

[Uri’el-2012]

Catholic doctrine does not teach other than Mary a sinner in need of a Savior. The difference is in when she received the grace of Jesus.

I admit to having never heard the word replacmentarianism which doesn’t seem to be an actual word but I am guessing is one used by some to express a certain understanding of other beliefs.

This is also a guess, that it seems in the context in which you are using it, it means the belief that the Christian church has replaced the Jewish faith?

I do not think that is what I am espousing in regards to this discussion.

Joseph did not live before Moses and like all the Jews of his time, was under the law as given by God to Moses. When Joseph is spoken of as a righteous man, it is in regards to the law of the time, not as one under the new covenant which imparts righteousness to us through grace and not the law.

One cannot view each historical and pivotal person in the Bible through the same lens, as God has given them each a unique role.

Mary received salvation when ever she called on YHvH for her salvation.

20 But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord
appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not
be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been
conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

21 "She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus
(Which means in Hebrew: YHvH be/is my salvation), for He
will save His people from their sins."

22 Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord
through the prophet:

23 "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A
SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated
means, "GOD WITH US."

It seems that Joseph knew it before Mary.

The term replacmentarianism is used on FR as shorthand for
Replacement Theology which has been taught by the Roman "church"
since 325CE in Nicaea.

NAsbU Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[Jvette]

Still not sure what it means. LOL

[marbren]

Let's have some Bible verse that says that sin nature comes through the male and not the female.

Are you saying it is catholic doctrine that sin came through Eve? I do not know. It may just be MarkBsnr opinion.

[metmom]

We have the story. Whatever HAD to be, what we are told is that the serpent approached Eve. Eve ate and persuaded Adam to eat.

Eve was deceived. She was the weaker vessel being a woman. It was Adam's responsibility to protect her and he didn't. Therefore the blame is his.

And nowhere does it say that Eve PERSUADED him to eat. She gave to him, as he was with her, and then he ate.

He was with her. He watched the whole conversation with Satan and did NOTHING to stop it. He listened to the conversation, heard her misquote what God told him, and he watched her eat. What on earth kind of husband would watch his wife be tempted by Satan and not stop it and then watch her eat to see if anything happened to her before deciding to eat himself. He let her be the guinea pig. When nothing happened to her, he no doubt thought it would be safe to partake himself.

Nice guy.

[MarkBsnr]

Look, stop arguing with usual suspects. Such conform to the types aptly described in Mk 8:18 and Ps 115.5 which instructs us on the proper methodology of handling the hard hearted.

It is true that their hearts are as stony as a Biblical excution, but the task of the Church to convert all nations to Christ.

It is all about their SINFUL PRIDE which feeds their need to interpret scripture with an agenda straight from the lower world to obfuscate the message of Our Lord. They can not accept a magisterium since it would impinge on their Prideful state of mind.

When you rely on the god in the mirror, I'm afraid that you are correct. Large bowls of YOPIOS do not indicate submission to God; they indicate that God answers to them.

Follow the advice of the Master in MT:22 and Lk 9:60. You will never change their minds since their hearts do not belong to Jesus. I have tried to be Christian to them throughout the years but to no avail since they appear to resemble the Dry Bones and White Washed Sepulchers mentioned in the Bible. The Church gave scripture to them and they continue to pervert its meaning with prideful interpretations and deny this historical gift of the bible in spite of objective history to the contrary.

You have much wisdom, sir, and I can find no fault with it, other than the idea that I must endure to the end. If we do not deliver the actual and true Good News of the Salvation of Christ to these unfortunates, then who will?

[CynicalBear]

Yeah, I didn’t think you would be able to come up with provable or Biblical facts to disprove when those letters were actually written. I post provable fact and you come back with personal attacks? Is your theology that weak?

[daniel1212]

Be careful, you may be similarly labelled.

[Alex Murphy]

You should know what it is. You guys do it here all the time, attempting to convert Catholics (I have no doubt you would use force if allowed) to Paulianity.

I can name a half-dozen current FRoman Catholics who have said they want to bring back the Inquisitions, and bring them to America. Two of those are on record as saying that Catholics should not turn the other cheek when their church is offended, but should "strike out" against their enemies.

Should the ex-Catholics of the infamous post #5 be expecting a progrom in their future? Should I?

And yes, proselytizing could get me fired, and no, I won't do it....How would you like a proselytizing Catholic employee at your place of business?

That depends - does this applicant have any skills to speak of?

[metmom]

So much projection......

[Jvette]

Grace at the moment of her conception. Salvation through that saving grace and eternal life body and soul upon her death.

Those words to Joseph were for his understanding. Mary already knew and said yes to God regardless of the consequences to herself.

Anyhow, that does not invalidate what I said nor change what happened and why it happened. Mary was in need of a Savior and Jesus was that Savior. The church has never taught any thing other than that Truth.

[MarkBsnr]

>>Historically speaking, a generation is approximately 20 years.<<

Oh really?

Psalm 90:10 The years of our lives are 70; and if by reason of strength they be 80 years, yet most of them are labor and sorrow; for life is soon cut off and we fly away.

http://genforum.genealogy.com/dna/messages/129.html says that:

MUMMA Generation time span - So how long a time is a generation? Some geneticists and anthropologists suggest 15 to 25 years as the number of years per generation. I believe this substantially understates the value for modern times, i.e. in the last 500 years. First, this time appears to be the time for the "first birth" of females and not an average time for the birth all of her children. For example, if we simply assume a woman's child bearing period was typically from age 15 to 45, the median child would be born around 15 years after her marriage, suggesting an average generation time of 30 years, based on the mother's age.

Thus, with the shortened generational lifespan in Biblical times, Natural Law is quite correct.