Posted on 06/14/2011 6:53:10 AM PDT by narses
Actually, it wasn't. I happen to believe that, but I didn't post it to you in the last couple of days. It is fascinating looking at the development of the NT before canonization, don't you agree?
Actually, it wasn't. I happen to believe that, but I didn't post it to you in the last couple of days. It is fascinating looking at the development of the NT before canonization, don't you agree?
There are always "self described Christians" who believe all sorts of things.
Just wanted to point out that your phrase "it is believed" does not represent the entire landscape of orthodox believers.
Just wanted to point out that your phrase "it is believed" does not represent the entire landscape of orthodox believers.
You are correct. For instance, the entire landscape of orthodox believers believe in the Real Presence of the Eucharist.
Not so.
Like O'Reilly I will allow you to go ahead and have the last word as no doubt you would like.
You spoke of orthodoxy. The Real Presence is a requirement of orthodox Christianity, not some variant of fallible men's copy of the Faith. If you believe in self-doctrine, well then, you may do so.
Her progenitors were chosen and guided by the Holy Spirit
Her mother, (Saint) Anne was made aware that her daughter, Mary, was the one chosen to Immaculately conceive, and carry in her womb, the infant Jesus, the Redeemer.
From the moment of her conception, Mary was and remained pure, innocent, and without sin.
After the 'announcement' from Gabriel, Mary only desired to be 'married' to God.
Obeying God's wishes, she married (Saint) Joseph.
Mary was an adept seamstress, and oft made clothes to be given to the poor. When women would request a garment sewn by Mary, solely for the sake of owning such a garment, she politely refused.
Mary died thirteen years and two months after Christ's Ascension.
Before she died, all the Apostles, excepting Thomas, who arrived after her death, were present.
Before dying, Mary blessed each Apostle according to Divine instruction.
Mary was interred in a cave which was situated below the cave of Jesus' interment.
Upon death Mary"s soul ascended immediately to Paradise.
Later, her spirit, accompanied by Angels, collected her human body and again ascended to Heaven, where Mary joined her Son and the Father.
Mary, by decree of God, was named Mother of the Church.
Ave Maria.
Aside: Many will scoff at, and attempt to deny, what I've posted above. If you do not believe it now, you will at some point in the future, be shown it to be true.
Also, we, Roman-Catholics, do not 'worship' Maria. Though we do, unabashedly, love her, and oft ask that she intercedes on our behalf to her Son.
The passage does not say one way or the other.
Matt 12
46While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. 47Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Mark ch 3
32 And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.
33 And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?
34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
In matt he stretched his hand toward his disciples.
In fact both passages makes it very plain.
I guess I missed the book of Luther.
I guess I missed the book of Calvin.
I guess I missed the book of Zwingli.
I guess I missed the book of Bullinger.
I guess I missed the book of Wesley.
Three different words used to describe those present.
The crowds or multitude
His mother and his brethren
His disciples
We do not know if his disciples were his mother/brethren or if they were among the crowd.
It just doesn’t say what is wanted here.
It does not say those who came to speak to him were not his followers.
What we are to learn from this, the take away if you will,
is that those whosiever does the will of God is his mother and brethren.
This is not a rebuke of Mary. It certainly does not mean that Mary was not a follower.
Mary comes to speak to him, he is surrounded by people.
The word is passed up that she and his brethren are there wishing to see him.
He uses their appearance to tell the crowd that when one does the will of his Father in heaven, one is his brother or sister or mother.
We are not told what immediately follows this exchange.
Often times people read into passages what they want it to say rather than reading it, considering the time and place in the story and trying to discern why the writer felt the need to include it.
It is just not as plain as one would like to believe.
It is just not as plain as one would like to believe.
It plainly says his mother and brethren stood without, they were not the disciples, nor were they in the crowd that sat about him.
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