Posted on 05/19/2011 7:00:15 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
i agree, interesting graph.
but, “not a problem of homosexuality” ?!? what are they smoking? ...how can you ever truly solve a problem, if you don’t understand (or refuse to admit) the cause?
it is insane to have those study statistics, and conclude this has nothing to do with homosexuality.
81 % of victims are boys?
i admire the church for being honest enough, to take responsibility, and for studying the problem.
(unlike schools, were the abuse rate is 100 times greater!
yet the liberal media ignores that. and schools are immune from the big money lawsuits...)
...again, look at all the Protestant churchs, that now are accepting homosexual clergy, and condoning gay lifestyles, ignoring the Bible.
what will be the future of those churches?
sadly, i worry what their abuse rate will be, a decade from now...
An interesting article on sustained, long term multiple child sexual abuse by a school teacher is posted this morning:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2722096/posts
Apparently in all the public schools, the police are not routinely notified.
“There is only a focus on the Catholics alone, by all the others. I wonder why it is so difficult to understand that?”
I was drawn into these threads by one attacking Baptists.
As for support against the allegations...that could be true. It could be the congregation is deceiving itself, or it could be they know both parties and have a good idea who is telling the truth.
When applied to financial bad judgment, I’ve seen both - pastors accused who had clean records (and the check stubs to prove it) and pastors who did wrong that their congregation didn’t want to believe. My own pastor freely admits he once invested much of his money in a venture because he trusted the pastor running it, only to lose everything - every penny he had saved to go to seminary. And he admits that many years later, he still finds it hard to believe the pastor cheated him.
But in a congregational model, the damage is also congregational. If the congregation is deceived, it pays the price both in wrongdoing and in any legal actions.
“Each wants to think that theologically or organizationally it is immune to the problems Catholics are dealing with.”
Baptists DO sexually abuse their trust sometimes, just as the financially abuse their trust sometimes. But since any such abuse drags the name of Christ thru the mud, I think the church has an obligation to hold their pastors (or priests) to a HIGHER standard, not a lower one. The only case of sex that I know of involved a deacon and a young woman in the choir, and he was forced to resign before the next church meeting that Sunday.
Not sure why you deleted my post. If one can’t refer to a theoretical pedophile as a degenerate, things have really changed around here.
Baptists DO sexually abuse their trust sometimes, just as the financially abuse their trust sometimes.
Yes, as do all denominations.
But since any such abuse drags the name of Christ thru the mud, I think the church has an obligation to hold their pastors (or priests) to a HIGHER standard, not a lower one.
On this I agree 100%.
The only case of sex that I know of involved a deacon and a young woman in the choir, and he was forced to resign before the next church meeting that Sunday.
Of all the priests and nuns involved with my family, including my children, my nephews, from 35 years ago to the present day (and my kids and grandkids go to parochial schools, and one son to a Jesuit HS) I know of no instance or accusation at any parish or school by anyone. I do know of two music ministers/choir members sexual activity, but that was in protestant churches, and I only found out because my husband was a visiting musician. Nobody in those instances resigned or left the church.
Campion, why did you fail to post the rest of that sentence?
“...according to an independent, $1.8 million study conducted by New York’s John Jay College of Criminal Justice, commissioned by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.”
Odd that you left out who paid for the study...
Posts containing potty language and refereneces to potty language are automatically removed on the Religion Forum. It had nothing to do with the substance of your post.
Why not read the report instead of just assuming what it says? Just because it concludes that Catholicism is not the reason for abuse does not mean it is a white wash. It showed very clearly that the consequences of disregarding constant Christian moral teaching on the matters of sexuality lead to the crisis.
The Church did not write the report. You must have missed where the report showed that the Church’s response was typical of all institutions during the time most of the abuse occurred. They relied on so called secular experts on how to handle abusers.
Also how the heck is 4% of the priestly population over a period of 30-40 years evidence of a systematic tolerance of abuse.
The inability of anti Catholics to examine data without their prejudices blindning them always puzzles me. To harbor such hate that facts are repugnant to one is certianly not a Christian virtue.
At a study last Saturday, one of the topics discussed was knowing your weakness and taking steps to prevent it from bearing fruit. I asked our pastor, who is about 60, if he would consider counseling a beautiful 25 year old woman alone in his office, or an 18 year old, or a 15 year old. He was a bit startled, but his response was “Absolutely not!”
The point was that doing so opened him up to false accusations, and worse, opened him up to temptations that still exist.
He mentioned a guy he knew who had been very promiscuous when young, who converted, but still found it tempting to watch porn while on business trips. He had asked some of the men to call him every night he was on the road, because he was less likely to give in to temptation if he knew a friend would call him.
I posted on this thread because the guy was making excuses rather than facing the problem. It’s “Ephebophilia”, not pedophilia or homosexuality. But that doesn’t face the problem head on. Saying the boy was 14 so it is ephebophilia is hiding from the obvious. And when a Catholic does that, it hurts Baptists as well - all sexual and financial wrongdoing is a huge stain on the name of Jesus.
The non-christians I’ve met don’t distinguish between Catholic priests and baptists - they just say Christians are hypocrites and use that as an excuse to reject Christ. They probably would reject him anyway, but I would prefer they had less ammo...
Not leas disgusting but the way in which you keep homosexual abuse from happening would be different from how to prevent pederast abuse. It is much harder to screen and keep out the latter. But if the majority of abuse victims were post pubescent boys making sure that homosexuals are barred from seminary will do a great deal to keep such abuse from happening.
You might not like it but there is a medical definition of pedophilia which applies in this study. The medical definition of pre puberty does not always match the legal definition. Which is fine as you certainly could have an 11 year old girl who had her first menstrual period. This would mean she was indeed post pubescent but certainly any one sexually abusing her should be regarded as a pedophile for legal purposes as in every other aspect she is still a child.
The report however is not concerned with how the legal system responds to abuse but the causes of the crisis and how to prevent such abuse in the future. That is why knowing that the majority of victims had entered puberty is so important.
The report he is commenting on was done by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice.
You must not know the gentleman’s body of work or you would never make that claim.
Wonderful response, and again, my thanks.
Actually, there is a definite difference between ephebephilia and pedophilia, and certainly both are illegal. Homosexuals who are attracted to sexually mature or maturing teens are rarely the same as pedophiles, who are attracted to the immature. Further, even though no one would dispute that a 13-15 year old is a child, they are more aware of sexual interaction than a pre-pubescent, and less vulnerable to exploitation. The young males in my family certainly were, as was my husband growing up.
Thanks for discussing the measures your church is taking to protect parishioners. I doubt those measures are ubiquitous in the denomination, though — as is required in the Catholic Church.
Your last paragraph is outstanding, and one of the reasons I appreciate your posts:
“The non-christians I’ve met don’t distinguish between Catholic priests and baptists - they just say Christians are hypocrites and use that as an excuse to reject Christ. They probably would reject him anyway, but I would prefer they had less ammo...”
May God bless you in all you do, and thank you for today’s conversation.
Mr. Weigel does not support that contention.
Just because the facts presented do not meet your perceptions does not mean they are not facts.
Would I like to see another report outlinging exactly the errors and outright criminal behavior of bishops and even lay law enforcement in covering up the abuse? Yes I would. Would I like it to be a no holds bar report showing clearly how so many failed to protect victims? Yes I would. Was that issued addressed by this report? Not in enough detail and it should be a separate examination.
Modernist Weigel lauds the Masonic takeover of the Papal states:
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/262329/italy-150-george-weigel
Deck chairs on the Titanic.
Oh if we have to include unknown, unreported cases that is different. Do you also require that police do the same?
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