Carefully Schooled in the First Principles and Ordinances (REAL LDS/Mormon)

LDS.org ^ | Richard E. Bennett

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Some of you sound a bit too convinced of yourselves for my tastes. In fact,I would dare say some of you sound to me just like modern-day Pharisees.”

That sure sound judgmental. Since you are condemning others for being judgmental, that also sounds hypocritical...

Just a reflection back to you after reading your posts here.

Ampu

[Graybeard58]

But I know this. No Mormom EVER made fun of other churches or doctrines like I have seen here.

Made fun of? Well, it wasn't exactly fun but J. Smith said all other churches were wrong (apostate) and hell bound.

I pray for individual Mormons, I sincerely desire that they all see the true Light and accept the biblical Jesus as Lord and Savior.

You're in my prayers eagles, you may not believe that my prayers will help you in any way and you may be right in that regard but my prayers for you also has the added perk of helping me.

We had a Mormon woman here, who "opused out" a few months back who posted a lot of, "Jesus is my Savior". It's easy to accept that at face value but when I delve into the Mormon Jesus, I find him to be a quite different Jesus than the One of the Gospels.

Lay aside the B.O.M. for a "season" and read the Bible, both testaments, The real Jesus is in both of them.

[greyfoxx39]

Thank you. One of the first examples of kindness and gentleness. Two traits Jesus showed amply. I would much rather here what YOu have to say, than the Pharisees.

And I would ask, just WHO are you labeling Pharisees?

Did you not remember the judgment you made in your post #36? "Surely if the people here REALLy cared about Mormons, they would realize that making fun of someone’s faith only pushes them further away." It would appear that you make judgments while condemning others for doing so.

Judge not......IMO, it would be good if you examined mormonism and made an informed judgment of its truthfulness and whether Jesus would be allowed to enter a mormon temple if he were to arrive at the door today.

How Mormonism 'programs' people: http://members.shaw.ca/blair_watson/

To Those Who Are Investigating Mormonism: What the Missionaries Won't Tell You: http://packham.n4m.org/tract.htm

Contradictions in Mormonism: http://packham.n4m.org/contra.htm

101 Doubts about Mormonism: http://packham.n4m.org/101.htm

Joseph Smith's Changing First Vision Accounts: http://www.irr.org/mit/first-vision/fvision-accounts.html

Rethinking Mormonism: http://www.i4m.com/think/

A Seer Stone and a Hat - "Translating" the Book of Mormon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPnu0bx3oWg

DNA vs. The Book of Mormon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svfxSscxh8o

The Lost Book of Abraham: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcyzkd_m6KE

The Untold Story of the Death of Joseph Smith: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvSo0ate4tM&feature=related

PBS FRONTLINE + American Experience: The Mormons (4-hour documentary film, with excerpts of interviews with Hinckley, Packer, Holland and Jensen): http://www.pbs.org/mormons/

‘Faith-disrupting’ teachings and statements of Mormon ‘prophets’ (after Joseph Smith): http://mormonthink.com/prophetsweb.htm#apostleadmits

Remembering the Wives of Joseph Smith [including 11 Mormon women who were already married and 7 teenage girls younger than 18]: http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/

The 'motherlode' of historical info. about Mormonism: http://www.utlm.org/navtopicalindex.htm

Book of Mormon Tories [plagarisms in the BoM involving two American history books, one published in 1789 and the other in 1805, that were available to Joseph Smith]: http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/magazine/pmm_article_full_text/211

Skeptics Annotated Book of Mormon

Joseph Smith as a Sexual Predator

Why Mormons Leave

[eagles]

I do not label anyone as a Pharisee simply for disagreeing or believing another religion. I think one behaves as the Pharisees when one RIDICULES another faith-—such as has been done here-—OR tells ME that I am going to hell-—which has also been done here.
Clear enough?

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“. I think one behaves as the Pharisees when one RIDICULES another faith-—such as has been done here-—OR tells ME that I am going to hell-—which has also been done here.”

I’ve not seen ANYONE TELL YOU that you are going to hell.
Can you point to the post please?

thank you,
ampu

[greyfoxx39]

IMO, anyone who labels another a pharisee should be careful about condemning others for ANYTHING, especially for judging others!

Name-calling is a handy tactic when one lacks facts with which to carry on a discussion.

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[eagles]

I read the Bible all the time. And if Joseph Smith ever said all other religions are hell-bound—something I doubt, I would reject that. I may not be the typical Mormon-—tho I do know many who believe just like I do. BUT I don’t believe ANYTHING without taking it to the Lord for confirmation. Personally, I don’t believe everything Joseph SMith said or past prophets have said because they are MORTAL beings. Even prophets can make mistakes-—remember David? So if you all wanna waste time posting everything JS ever uttered—well guess what? I don’t believe it all either. He was a man. And there are none of us who are perfect.

In my church, we DO believe other churches have some errors in their gospel-—just as Catholics believe Protestants are wrong, but we do NOT believe they are going to hell. We are NEVER taught that. We are taught to treat other faiths with utmost respect-—something I wish would catch on in this forum.
I was taught that most churches preach a portion of the truth, some more than others, but as long as they teach man to do good, they are, in essence, good. Mormons come from the standpoint that they have more truth, NOT that others are evil. If all faiths had that philosophy there would be alot more kindness in this world.

We believe that God is the final judge and that if you believe in Christ, and do your best to follow him, you will be saved.
That’s the essence of my belief.
Thank you for your prayers, Graybeard, we ALL need them-—and yes, I believe your prayers are just as good as mine.
But I do believe my Savior is as good as yours too, because He is the same one you worship.

[eagles]

Mormonism does NOT teach me that works will get me anything. My belief is that I am saved by GRACE after all I can do. Meaning that, even if my whole life were spent ONLY in serving my Lord, I would still not DESERVE salvation, and that comes to me only though God’s great mercy.

[Godzilla]

But I know this. No Mormom EVER made fun of other churches or doctrines like I have seen here.

Well, let us educate you eagles -

Mormon missionaries descrate Catholic Shrine
http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=27141

Here is a youtube of missionaries mocking black Christian preachers -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-fsX7CYoN8

As an admitted newby to mormonism, it wasn't until recently that a historic component of the temple endowment ceremony was removed - a part where Satan interviews a Christian minister and coaches him on how to mislead the people - ask older temple mormons about this eagles as this was changed in 1990.

Words from you adopted prophets and apostles regarding other Churches or doctrines -

“Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls.”
- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, see pp. 45-46

“... all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ.... in large part the worship of apostate Christendom is performed in ignorance, as much so as was the worship of the Athenians who bowed the Unknown Gods.”
- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 269, 374-375

"After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon."
- Apostle George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, p. 324

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the ‘whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent."
- Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 255

"What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast."
- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 6, p.25

Now eagle, I don't know if you have your head in the sand or not, but how often do you hear other mormons refer to Christians as "gentiles"? Is the context always in a gentle, loving manner or a denegrating fashion.

You see eagle, it is VERY easy to prove mormons and mormonism has made fun of other churches and doctrines - it comes from its very leadership itself. It is found in its scriptures, it has been present in its temple endowment ceremonies. It has been promulgated by mormonism from its very inception.

[eagles]

Yes I can. Laweeks said this: Anyone who follows this stuff is sure as hell destined for a very long visit to Hell. And how very sad that no mormon will listen to logical criticism of this madness.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

eagles,

You wrote, “Yes I can. Laweeks said this: Anyone who follows this stuff is sure as hell destined for a very long visit to Hell. And how very sad that no mormon will listen to logical criticism of this madness.”

This does not say YOU personally, are going to hell. This says people who follow mormonism to the end.

YOU can change. YOU can put your feet on a different path today - this very minute.

The only people who are going to Hell are those who reject the Biblical Christ and His gift of salvation by grace, received through faith and apart from works. This includes apart from mormon works.

Only YOU can make that choice. If you choose your mormon works - good works, temple rituals, belief in a non-Biblical Jesus Christ, then you have rejected the Gospel of Grace. It is 100% your call.

The poster you quote is pointing out where the mormon path goes. He or she did not say you were going to hell.

I encourage you to take a step back and realize you don’t have to follow that path to hell.

None of us knows what you will decide. We want better for you than to end up at the end of your life, still depending on useless works that cannot save.

best,
ampu

[aMorePerfectUnion]

forgot to give you a courtesy ping... sorry

[eagles]

I will check out your links later. As for McConkie quotes, I don’t think he is accepted very well by the church right now.
I don’t believe or should I say agree with the quotes you provided. Like I said before, I do not believe everything that ANY Church teaches. And I certainly don’t believe that other churches are evil-—nor am I taught that.
Those quotes you provided are not considered in our canon of scripture. That means we are under no “obligation” to accept them as truth. They are personal quotes by men, whom I feel were misguided in what they said-—and wrong. They are also quite dated.
As far as the “gentiles’ reference, I have truthfully NEVER heard it said in a negative light. I have been a member for over 20 years and I have NEVER heard any mormon in a meeting or in a conference make fun of or ridicule other churches as has been done in this forum. I’m being totally honest in that.
If you look through this entire thread, you will see some who have been sincere in their disagreement with the Mormon faith-—I have no problem with that-—and many who have chosen ridicule. The latter is non-productive, unnecessary, and in my opinion. un-Godlike.

[Graybeard58]

Even prophets can make mistakes-—remember David?

God's prophets make no mistakes in prophecy. David was a king, not a prophet.

The "prophet" J. Smith couldn't get any of his prophecies right, failing the test of a true prophet of God, every single time.

.

[eagles]

Ampu, why do you keep saying this?

“YOU however, hear the gospel of grace here and apparently prefer your own works of righteousness that can lead you to hell. What will you do?”

Is that not judging someone else? Are you not saying I will go to hell? I do NOT believe that my works will get me to heaven. How many times do I have to say that? To be truthful, there are issues about my religion with which I question. But that is not one of them. The LDS faith does NOT teach that works get you into heaven.

[colorcountry]

The LDS faith does NOT teach that works get you into heaven.

Do you consider doing Temple ordinances a work?

[Graybeard58]

My belief is that I am saved by GRACE after all I can do

That is indeed the Mormon belief and it is indeed incorrect. Quote me a source in the Christian bible for that please. God's grace is free and unconditional, you don't have to pre qualify.

[Graybeard58]

I’m bowing out, there are plenty of people here who are more qualified than I am to answer you and I don’t want you to feel “piled on”.

If you address any more comments to me, I’ll get back to you tomorrow, if someone else hasn’t already answered you.

[eagles]

What I mean is if I truly believe in God, good works will follow naturally. My life will change. I will want to please God-—and that over time I will put off the natural man. I do not believe that one can really believe in GOd and continue to be willfully selfish, cruel, etc.
The Bible says, “Faith without works is dead.” That is what I mean.

[Godzilla]

As for McConkie quotes, I don’t think he is accepted very well by the church right now.

Regardless of his level of 'acceptance', he was an APOSTLE of the mormon church, elevated to a level of church leadership where they were expected to be spokesmen of the church and church doctines and beliefs.

Those quotes you provided are not considered in our canon of scripture. That means we are under no “obligation” to accept them as truth. They are personal quotes by men, whom I feel were misguided in what they said-—and wrong. They are also quite dated.

Never said they were 'scripture', though you should restudy "Gospel Principles" regarding scripture. I didn't include ALL source quotes available to me either. What they do show, in combination with the modern McConkie quotes and endowment ceremony, is that the teachings of the mormon church has been to denegrate and mock the Christian Church since the beginning of mormonism. As APOSTLES and PROPHETS of the church, their words bear MORE than just their opinions. I'd recommend you review Taft's speech to byu in 1980 "Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet", which was also cited twice in the Oct 2010 General conference.

As far as the “gentiles’ reference, I have truthfully NEVER heard it said in a negative light.

I'll accept that at face value, other exmo's here provide other contrary examples.

I have been a member for over 20 years and I have NEVER heard any mormon in a meeting or in a conference make fun of or ridicule other churches as has been done in this forum.

Then did you receive your endowment prior to the 1990 changes? If you did - you saw the protestant minister (and Christianity in general) being mocked and in a mocking manner. If yes on your part, you can't hold to your statement in all honesty.

AFA mormons in this forum - you are are a relative noob in some fashions. A couple of years ago mormons here decided they were going to "hose the pigs [Christians]" along with other choice metaphors.