Posted on 02/04/2011 11:29:26 AM PST by RJR_fan
Well, the article does come from the American Vision site...so that explains much. Pretty much Replacement Theology, of which the poster has often posted in the past.
I do not understand what folks find objectionable about this claim? (Other than it may not fit with their interpretation of the images and symbols in the book of Revelation).
In the OT God repeatedly refers to Israel as a harlot (aka whore):
32 They angered Him also at the waters of strife, So that it went ill with Moses on account of them;Are those usages of harlot/whore offensive to you?
33 Because they rebelled against His Spirit, So that he spoke rashly with his lips.
34 They did not destroy the peoples, Concerning whom the Lord had commanded them,
35 But they mingled with the Gentiles And learned their works;
36 They served their idols, Which became a snare to them.
37 They even sacrificed their sons And their daughters to demons,
38 And shed innocent blood, The blood of their sons and daughters, Whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan; And the land was polluted with blood.
39 Thus they were defiled by their own works, And played the harlot by their own deeds.
40 Therefore the wrath of the Lord was kindled against His people, So that He abhorred His own inheritance. (Psalm 106)20 But if you refuse and rebel, You shall be devoured by the sword"; For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.
21 How the faithful city has become a harlot! It was full of justice; Righteousness lodged in it, But now murderers.
22 Your silver has become dross, Your wine mixed with water.
23 Your princes are rebellious, And companions of thieves; Everyone loves bribes, And follows after rewards. They do not defend the fatherless, Nor does the cause of the widow come before them. (Isa. 1)30 I will do these things to you because you have gone as a harlot after the Gentiles, because you have become defiled by their idols. (Ezek. 23)
If (and I realize folks disagree) the words of Revelation are related to the unfaithfulness of Jerusalem in the first century, then how is the phrase “whore Jerusalem” offensive?
8 And another angel followed, saying, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication." (Rev. 14)1 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me, "Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters,
18 And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth." (Rev. 17)8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. (Rev. 11)
6 For thus says the Lord to the house of the king of Judah: "You are Gilead to Me, The head of Lebanon; Yet I surely will make you a wilderness, Cities which are not inhabited.
7 I will prepare destroyers against you, Everyone with his weapons; They shall cut down your choice cedars And cast them into the fire.
8 And many nations will pass by this city; and everyone will say to his neighbor, 'Why has the Lord done so to this great city?'
9 Then they will answer, 'Because they have forsaken the covenant of the Lord their God, and worshiped other gods and served them.' " (Jer. 22)
Conclusion:
There is much to be gained in the example of Rushdoony-- both in his achievements and failings. But we'll have to do better than Carl Trueman to appreciate either.
Unlike you, I have never accused anyone of anti-semitism. And there is no objective evidence that so-called replacement theology is anti-semtitic. That’s a phony claim by modern dispensationalists who don’t like to have their assertions challenged. But they repeat their lies to no end.
As for heretics, they usually take care of themselves, or hide and try to avoid unpleasant questions, e.g.,
Do you believe God has been/is/or will be in the future married to two different and distinct people?Still waiting for an answer. Do you have some reason for not answering?
your statement that God has divorced Israel and has/will marry the Church during the Marriage of the Lamb
Fabrication. I never made any such statement.
Finally, I question your salvation for two reasons. First is your attack upon Dispensationals to the point that you question their actual purpose and salvation.
I have never questioned a dispensationalist’s salvation. Period. End of story. If you have proof to the contrary, put up or shut up. About their purpose, that’s their problem not mine. I simply oppose dispensational teaching with all my might. It is false and needs to be eradicated. I use the opportunity to demonstrate that fact every time it’s offered. You don’t like it. Fine. But that doesn’t make me any more anti-this or anti-that than it makes you anti-whatever because to are fearful of the “replacement theology” boogeyman that lives in your closet and only comes out at night.
(I’ve seen you multiple times stating that Dispensationism is born of Satan. How much more can you accuse us of?)
Where?
How can you say that you’re born again if you hate your own Brothers and how can your posts be construed as anything other than hate and disdain towards us?
Stop blowing hot air and show me where I have shown hatred for any brother in Christ. Your exaggerations and lies in order to justify your own foibles is quite telling.
When you seek forgive for questioning my salvation then we can be reconciled.
Your hermeneutical error is that you have not read the end of the story (check the location of your proof-text passages: Psalms, Is, Ezek.). The passage from John's revelation of Jesus Christ refers to Babylon, not Israel.
Now, no question Israel is presently both hard-headed & hard-hearted. However, according to Paul (Rom.) the day is coming when God will impose upon Israel a softened heart and ears to hear. Something like Jer. 23. But, the form that will take is cloudy. However, anyone who believes their eschatological system is bullet-proof is kidding themselves.
For God to chastise his earthly people, even wrathfully, harshly does not give us the right to follow suit. You are not the offended party and you need to tread lightly when it comes to the true legacy, the destiny Yahweh has in store for those who were given the Law and from whom sprung the physical form of the Root of Jesse. We reach to them, especially them, because we are the benefactors of that role. It is not hyper-Zionism nor a an unthinking bias. It is a thoughtful consideration for their pivotal role in history of redemption and our hope that we might be a part of their repentance.
Any believer who pounds his fist on the table and says, "They are beyond hope!" has not come to grips with his own Total Depravity. May I suggest Sam Storms book Chosen for Life? It is not perfect, but it is extremely insightful.
How was literal Babylon ever a “spiritual harlot” as far as God is concerned? IOW, when was Babylon ever in a covenant arrangement with God? What nation other then ancient Israel was ever in covenant relationship with God that He would refer to them as a “harlot?”
In Revelation the phrase “great city” is a clear reference to Jerusalem.
8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. (Rev. 11)
Now, no question Israel is presently both hard-headed & hard-hearted.
Modern Israel is like every other nation in their disregard for God and His law. There is no covenant relationship between modern Israel and God.
However, anyone who believes their eschatological system is bullet-proof is kidding themselves.
I can agree with that.
Any believer who pounds his fist on the table and says, "They are beyond hope!"
Who is saying that? Certainly not me.
AMEN If God could find me and save me, there is no one beyond redemption
Thank you...good post.
Is this not an endorsement of Poncins view that the reports about the number of Jews killed are “lies” that he is “hostile” to?
It seems that this Rushdoony character's real problem with Poncins was that he was not sufficiently anti-Catholic in his Holocaust denial/revisionism.
However, if you are being badgered with that claim, let me know by Freepmail and I'll deal with it.
the Schofield bible is a private interpretation of scripture and that alone discredits it
Do you have his book? If not, why would you take someones counter argument at face value? If you have the book, scan ALL of the relevant section for all of us to look at.
Yes I do. That how I got the quote for page 589.
It is difficult to imagine that anyone can deny the reality of the mass slaughter that characterized the twentieth century, whether it be the Armenian millions murdered by the Turks, the Jewish millions murdered by the Nazis, or the untold millions murdered by the communists in China, Russia, and Cambodia.In my Institutes of Biblical Law, I noted that the scope of such mass murder had so numbed the modern conscience that the murder of a "mere" thousand, or ten thousand, no longer shocked, tempting some to inflate the scope of lesser atrocities, lest they not seem sufficiently horrific.
It was not my purpose to enter a debate over numbers, whether millions were killed, or tens of millions, an area which must be left to others with expertise in such matters. My point then and now is that in all such matters what the Ninth Commandment requires is the truth, not exaggeration, irrespective of the cause one seeks to serve. (Quoted here )
Whether it was in fact 6 million Jews who died in the Holocaust or not, killing even one Jewish person the sages say, is in effect destroying a universe.
It’s probably safe to say that Trueman never contacted Rushdoony for clarification. Granted Rush died in 2001 before Trueman made him a issue on his blog, but the language used in IBL had been around for decades, long enough to get clarification directly from the author. If anyone cared.
I believe that was part of the point that Rushdoony was trying to make in IBL. People have become so desensitized to holocaust numbers that the numbers need to be inflated to get the desired reaction. But the Law of God tells us that the death of even one innocent person demands swift and final justice.
The same nonsense goes in wrt so-called “hate crimes.” If you are part of a protected class, crimes against you are more heinous and therefore more severe punishment is required.
If I kill one or a hundred or a million, I should get the same punishment … death. And it doesn’t matter why I did it.
Other than saying God has nowhere revealed this to His people, I’ll leave that one go for now.
Well, I have to say to me, it is one of the great unknowns of Scripture Romans can just easily be quoted as Hebrews to bolster either view.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.