Posted on 01/22/2011 2:19:40 PM PST by Colofornian
There is a wonderful life as a Mormon. A wonderful life of following after Christ.
“Come on! ye persecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet... When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go.”
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., History of the Church, v. 6, pp. 408-409
If you wanted to follow Christ, why need the BoM?
Paragon, the Lord loves you deeply, like He does us.
What is one of the aspects that Jesus said was foremost in being found "worthy" as a disciple who followed Him?
Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. (Matthew 10:38)
Do Mormons take up their cross, PD? (I have to admit, I have trouble finding enough of us Christians who do that!)
Jesus didn't let it go there:
Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. (Matthew 16:24)
And Luke noted that Jesus said this wasn't a one-time commitment, or a sporadic thing: Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. (Luke 9:23)
Do Mormons take up their cross DAILY, PD?
Now, why do I have doubts that Lds do this?
* LdS tend to eschew the cross: ...the President of the LDS Church, David O. McKay “established the LDS Church’s no-cross protocol, saying it was not proper for LDS girls to wear it on their jewelry...
Source: No-Cross Protocol Sharon Lindbloom, Mormon Coffee, May 18, 2009
* Quoted in that same source is "Mormon scholar" Bob Rees, who said: ...in the 20th century its [the cross] use has been discouraged by [LdS] church leaders...
If it's been "discouraged" by the LdS leaders, how can they pick it up, PD? And if they don't pick it up, how can they either be found "worthy" by Christ or even follow Christ to a cross road?
* Here's another excerpt: Michael G. Reed, who has a bachelor of arts in humanities and religious studies and a master of art in liberal arts from California State University, Sacramento, explored at a recent Sunstone Symposium what he called, in rather charged language, the "LDS Contempt for the Christian Symbol." Reed said the cross "taboo" was grass roots and began around the turn of the 20th century...even when the use of the cross is divorced from anti-Catholicism, Mormons, as a whole, still do not generally use the cross as an outward symbol of their faith. "Contempt." "Aversion." "Opposition." "Taboo." Reed struggled throughout his presentation to find the right word to describe how Mormons feel about using the cross as a symbol.
Source: Sunstone speaker attempts to explain LDS 'aversion' to cross Michael De Groote, Mormon Times, Sept. 10, 2009
Well, that puts the Mormons' attitude toward the cross even in stronger terms: "Contempt. Aversion. Opposition. Taboo."
If it's "taboo" to even mention it symbolically, how do you take it up, PD?
If you have an "aversion" to it, doesn't it mean you've already done a u-turn on that cross long ago?
If you're fighting -- opposing -- the cross, then how can you embrace it?
Sorry, PD, but I just don't understand how Mr. Reed described all of this as a "grass roots" Mormon outpouring against the cross -- and how you can consider that "following" the cross?
Now wearing cross jewelry doesn't make you a Christian any more than being in a garage makes you a car...But forgive me for saying this, it appears to me that Lds treat the cross the way a vampire does! In fact, it's worse than that: At least a vampire would lick up the blood of Christ resulting from the cross once the body was removed from the cross...and the only blood Mormon leaders emphasize is the blood shed in the Garden of Gethsemane...again...'cause of their opposition and anti-cross stance.
Why are Mormons so "anti" PD?
Mormons are working to ensure your “personal” exaltation, which is somehow supposed to bring glory to God? That’s the goal right? Celestial kingdom?
I don’t see how that works if what you’re doing is essentially “banking” ordinances and works to get the balance sheet in your favor.
How is that “following after Christ”?
things to ponder by an Anonymous reply
We don't really know everything that Joseph Smith ever said, so we can't know for sure that he didn't ever make such a boast.
However, he did not make the specific boast that is often attributed to him.
The cited source for this claim is always �History of the Church�, an eight-volume set that purports to give the early history of the church in Joseph Smith's own words. The problem is, Joseph Smith did not ever write and was not ever recorded as speaking sufficient words to narrate this history. A rather odd and controversial method was used to produce this history. Text and quotes from many different sources were compiled, cast as if spoken or written by Joseph Smith, and arranged to produce the narrative that the creator of this work imagined that Smith himself would have written had he the time to do so. Authorship of this work was credited to Joseph Smith.
The actual sources of the texts are not credited. In some cases, they can be identified as having come from certain other sources, and in some cases, their true origin is unknown.
It is interesting to note that if one takes History of the Church at face value, we have text supposedly written by Joseph Smith that covers events occuring up to several years after his death.
As for the quote attributed to Joseph Smith, where he is claimed to have said;
I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam.
A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.; (History of the Church, Volume 6, Chapter 19, Page 408)
I am not certain of the source, but I believe that those words were actually spoken by John Taylor, as part of a eulogy that he gave at Joseph Smith's funeral. It not Joseph Smith himself who spoke these words; but John Taylor who spoke these words about Joseph Smith, after Joseph Smith was dead.
Read more: Did Joseph Smith really boast of doing a greater work than the Lord Jesus? | Answerbag http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/45930#ixzz1CFVnqoT2
Even their own “published” History can be disputed FROM WITHIN...
The hallmark of a lie is a story that is impossible to keep straight.
No wonder you are so confused...
Read more: Did Joseph Smith really boast of doing a greater work than the Lord Jesus? | Answerbag http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/45930#ixzz1CFVnqoT2
This guy is either stupid or he's lying or he's both. I say both. He's stupid for trying to lie about it. The facts are out there.
To try and use this idiots synopsis in an attempt to deflect db's comment is, well...read for yourself.
Address of the prophet – His testimony against the dissenters of Nauvoo
You really don't know the source but many here love to wallow in this...
This was recorded in your churches history and now that it has come to light, it's being questioned?
I think its good to know the truth but lets apply your logic all the way through. For example, Native Americans have been found not to contain Jewish DNA. Should we now start to question whether Joseph Smith got this information right or was he deceived by the 'spirit' that told him this?
Another one, there is no archeological proof that the Nephites, lamanites or Jaredites ever existed. If these were major civilizations as claimed in the BoM, why isn't there any trace of them?
If you have to get answers from LDS sources to reply to this, there has to be a small voice of reason inside your head questioning whether the Mormon church is true. The Bible has outside sources to verify it's claims, why can't the Mormon church say the same for the BoM?
Thank you for your opinion of what a man supposedly said after he was dead!
This document was written by Elder John Taylor of the Council of the Twelve, who was a witness to the events.
3Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it.
In the short space of twenty years, he has brought forth the Book of Mormon, which he translated by the gift and power of God, and has been the means of publishing it on two continents; has sent the fulness of the everlasting gospel, which it contained, to the four quarters of the earth; has brought forth the revelations and commandments which compose this book of Doctrine and Covenants, and many other wise documents and instructions for the benefit of the children of men; gathered many thousands of the Latter-day Saints, founded a great city, and left a fame and name that cannot be slain.
He lived great, and he died great in the eyes of God and his people; and like most of the Lord’s anointed in ancient times, has sealed his mission and his works with his own blood; and so has his brother Hyrum. In life they were not divided, and in death they were not separated!
Many things have been a credited to JS only to fine later things taken out of context or not proper source give to verify!
But if question able quotes makes you feel better so be it…
That’s not the quote being addressed. JS’s quote is the one being addressed. The one given at a conference
Are you deliberately trying to mislead people?
I gave you a direct link to the actual quotes given in the History of the Church. Here it is AGAIN. http://www.irr.org/mit/wdist/st-hc-v6p408.html
This eulogy only serves to perpetuate the arrogance of JS. Talyor is a purveyor of JS’s outlandish claim and is equally guilty of the blasphemy.
In order to maintain the lie, a lie must be used to support it, again and again and again...
For this particular argument it matters not whether Smith said the words or not. That the OFFICAL LDS history says he did and yet those WITHIN Mormonism dispute it seems to be an internal issue...
And symptom...
I for one am finding the shift in responses interesting. A month ago, we were liars, misinterprets, blind (and so forth), now it appears the FR lds are arguing against their own leaders.
This is impossible to maintain with any semblance of credulity from any and all concerned.
Remarkable resty - here we have a volume of work, published by the mormon church, reputed by the mormon church to accurately represent the history of the church and most importantly, document the words and actions of the church's founding prophet - smith - and now we find out that it is a lie? I find that most remarkable resty, that the mormon church would have to fudge the history and words of smith to make him into something he wasn't.
This is impossible to maintain with any semblance of credulity [and credibility] from any and all concerned."
And the posts are beginning to reflect those simple truths.
Like the claim that the Lamanites are the ancestors of the American Indian?
Another way of describing the Mormon Church
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