The Not So Secret Rapture

reformed.org ^ | W. Fred Rice

[investigateworld]

By now you have gone through my posting history... And you have found I have never attacked the Catholic church, as Bill Clinton said ".. "Not one time"

Like everyone who seeks the truth, I throw out 'bones for the dogs 'just to see who yaps'.

In fact, the next story I'm working on has the working title; The Day "The PADRE 'Nopu** socked it to the West Virginia National Guard".

[kosta50]

So, the next question becomes: Why do people "close" their souls against God?

They don't. The Pharaoh had no choice. It's like dying; your Bible says it's predestined, and Paul says it God's will, not yours:

For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy." [Rom 9:15-16]

Now, you may wish to believe otherwise, but your Bible says it's not your will or choice.

[kosta50]

thew 26:24...Mark 14:21...Luke 22:22

The topic was not apostasy but who determines faith, God or man.

Do you think Judas has a "choice"? LOL!

and Matthew 18:6...Mark 9:42...Luke 17:2

It is debatable what the writers mean by σκανδαλίζω (scandalizo), the Greek word which is found in those verses. The KJV says "offend" rather than [make them] "stumble".

At any rate, obviously the synoptic writers had a different opinion from Paul who said "So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy."[Romans 9:16], fwiw.

[count-your-change]

“The Church was not persecuting.”

Innocent VIII’s crusade against the Waldenses wasn’t persecution?
I’d like to see your dictionary definition of what persecution is and see whether a murderous crusade would fit.

“What lengths would you go to to stop another from going over to satan?”

Prayerfully, only those Christ taught his followers. Try as I might I don’t find killing ANYONE allowed and if you do you haven’t said so yet. Is there a reason?

[Alamo-Girl]

Do you attend a church? Read the Bible? Attend ecumenical meetings? Somewhere there is a leader. Who is that leader and to what are they leading you?

I am a bakery shop kid, God Himself leads me.

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. - I John 2:27

[There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. – Romans 8:1

I believe if a man came up to Billy Graham even at his advanced age and said “I want to be just like you, I will follow you to death” that Billy Graham would rent his clothes and repent in dust and ashes for he has spent his entire life pointing to Jesus.

Compare that to Jim Jones and Applewhite and David Koresh whose followers literally died with them. And compare that to L.Ron Hubbard and Joseph Smith.

I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.

History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 408-409

I follow the Good Shepherd, not man, any man.

But seriously, how do you try the spirits?

I follow Jesus’ example and simply ask who they say Jesus IS.

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. –I Corinthians 12:3

Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, [The Son] of David. - Matthew 22:42

He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. - Matthew 16:15-18

You continued:

Is not satan more powerful than any man?

Not a man filled with the Holy Spirit but we are to be respectful evidently because his fate is in God’s hands:

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. - James 4:7

Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. – Jude 9

You continued:

It took all that Jesus had to withstand satan, no?

No. Jesus withstood Satan’s temptations by speaking the words of God.

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. – Matt 4:4

Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. – Matt 4:7

Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. – Matt 4:10

The words of God are spirit, powerful and quickening.

For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. - Hebrews 4:12

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. - John 6:63

You continued:

Are you reducing the condition of love to the fulfillment of whims and making that love condition upon it?

I said “When we love someone, we want what he wants.”

But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. – Matt 16:23

You continued.

me: Indeed, when a person loves another deeply, he can no longer say whether he likes museums because she does or he does – or whether he likes cheeseburgers because she does or he does. So if we want what God wants it is because we love Him. And thereby, we don't need to "sweat the details."

You: Oh boy. Our imitation of Christ involves giving up of ourselves, but we do need to sweat the details. If we worship the Mormon God, for instance, will the Christian God understand that we actually meant well, so please don't hold it against us?

We can’t be loving God with all of our hearts, minds and souls (the one and only Great Commandment) if we don’t know Who He IS.

Remember that the Church took 3 centuries to come out with the definition of the Trinity and the Canon. If we reject the Trinity or believe in the Gospel of Thomas, is that small stuff?

If a Christian – one who knows Who God IS and loves Him whole heartedly - embraces other manuscripts which do not deny His Name, I trust God will not hold it against him.

Also, you give the Church the glory for defining the Trinity. That glory belongs to God. He revealed that Truth in Scripture:

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. – Isaiah 9:6

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: - Matthew 28:19

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. - Romans 8:9

The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. – Psalms 12:6-7

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it. - Isaiah 55:11

You continued:

me: And finally, what may be the most difficult for us to want that God wants since it involves suffering and destruction – that Jesus will come in power and glory and put down the rebellion that began with Satan and spread through Adam to mankind and then make all things new according to His will.

you: I have no idea what you mean here.

I chose some end of days passages, but feel free to choose your own. The point is that some of the things God wants are going to hurt a lot of people. If we love Him surpassingly above all else, we will be saying “even so, come Lord Jesus.”

He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. - Revelation 22:20

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. - Revelation 1:7-8

To God be the glory, not man, never man.

[kosta50]

It's equally difficult for me to take anything you say seriously because it's all judgment, no substance. You are under no obligation to read what I post. I pinged you as a matter of courtesy because Cronos did.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for pinging me to this sidebar, dear investigateworld!

[metmom]

Pharaoh did have a choice, at first. He was the one who initially hardened his heart.

God wishes all to come to repentance, but sometimes He gives people what they want.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

.

Even you...

.

Acts 17:24-31 The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything. And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us, for

“’In him we live and move and have our being’;

as even some of your own poets have said,

“’For we are indeed his offspring.’

Being then God’s offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”

[caww]

But Mark the catholics I know do indeed believe that it all must pass thru the church and their teachings...I have yet to meet one catholic who knows more than attendance at Mass and none know the scriptures. They don’t understand what “relationship” with Christ is about...let alone the Holy Spirits workings in their life. It’s all about ‘practicing catholicism’. So yes, those I’ve met do believe it all comes thru the church.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for those beautiful Scriptures, dear sister in Christ, and thank you for sharing your insights!

[metmom]

Sad to say, but it appears that FRoman Catholics are seriously out of touch with mainstream, grassroots Catholicism.

They don’t seem to have any idea what the average lay Catholic thinks, knows, and believes. We former Catholics keep trying to tell them and they either deny it or change the subject or accuse us of making it up, or we’re *poorly catechized*.

ANYTHING but admit that we know what we’re talking about from honest to goodness, real life experience and conversations.

WE’RE not the ones who don’t know what’s going on in the Catholic church.

[caww]

It is difficult to understand why they cannot see their memebership is as lax as they are. Oh they may recite the Rosary and mention what their Priest might say. But do have dialogue about scriptures, or why they believe what they do..it’s always about what the church says. They do practice Churchianity rather than Christianity.

Of course there are those who are sincere in their faith and do study...but I’m speaking of those I have met.

[boatbums]

Thanks. I loved the Screwtape Letters, but do not remember this part. It was quite some time ago. I “Favorites” it and will definitely read it in its entirety.

[boatbums]

They were prosecuted as ersatz Christians who followed another Gospel and were thought to lead others astray. Not persecuted. If your loved one's immortal soul is in danger of eternal damnation, what lengths would you go to? How far would you go to convince them of their error?

I sure as hades wouldn't torture them! Ever hear of the Holy Spirit, and do you know why he is in the world? (hint John 16:7-9)

[kosta50]

Pharaoh did have a choice, at first. He was the one who initially hardened his heart

But God made the final decision. My question was who makes the final decision if you will believe or not? Man or God and betty boop said she, of course! If that's the case then God is a mere provider and man is the final decider. That's not what Christianity teaches and that's not what your own scripture says.

God wishes all to come to repentance, but sometimes He gives people what they want

What about those who can't wish? Paul says he was predestined to preach the gospel; God decided for him (set him apart) when he was born. What sort of a choice is that and where does man's will come in? And what does it count for?

Acts 17:24-31

Who decides if man shall believe and be saved or not believed and be lost? Man or God? Who's in charge?

[cookcounty]

"Even in Reformed circles there are numerous people reading these books. Many of these people are unaware that this viewpoint conflicts with Scripture and Reformed Theology."

Depends on what you mean by "Reformed Theology."

[presently no screen name]

Sad to say, but it appears that FRoman Catholics are seriously out of touch with mainstream, grassroots Catholicism.

I see them like the liberal media - while they babble away, I laugh at the deception they speak and the control they display. The RC are closing churches, they have ad campaigns seducing people into their web while they pay off victims. Then one looks at the RCC's history - and it's one big ugly picture! Garbage in, garbage out!

The price they pay for not making God's Word The Final Authority is warranted, IMO.

[boatbums]

Hey, Dr. E, in other words:

[caww]

Now that’s a BIG cat!

[boatbums]

Paul did not preach the Trinity in his letters.

Now, Mark, you have been corrected on this many times. Here is just ONE verse that Paul wrote, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit:

2 Corinthians 13:14

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

Does that sound like "trinity" to you? You want me to post the other ones or do you still have them from the LAST time we discussed this?