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Book Review: Getting the Reformation Wrong
Supremacy and Survival: The English Reformation ^ | 1/11/11 | Stephanie A. Mann

Posted on 01/11/2011 12:47:22 PM PST by marshmallow

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1 posted on 01/11/2011 12:47:24 PM PST by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow; BenKenobi

Ping!


2 posted on 01/11/2011 12:48:33 PM PST by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: marshmallow; verga
Paul warned us about those introducing false teachings, "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." (2 Tim. 4:3–4).

The protestant “reformation” is simply not Biblical:

“I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ." Is Christ divided? 1Cor 1:10-14

You could easily read the above as “One of you says, "I follow Luther"; another, "I follow Calvin"; another, "I follow Wesley"; still another, "I follow Christ."

Christians cannot be “perfectly united in mind and thought” when they have different beliefs on, say, the necessity of water baptism, while others believe “This is my Body” means “This is a cookie”

We know from Scripture that the basic premise of “Protestantism” cannot be true:

“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Mat 6:18

“I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.” John 16:12-13

“But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” 1Tim 3:15

Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." Mat 28:18-20

Fortunately, we have Christ’s promise that heresies will never prevail against the Church. They will arise, endure sometimes for centuries, like Protestantism, but we can be confident in Christ’s promise that the Church He established will always teach the Truth.

3 posted on 01/11/2011 1:09:55 PM PST by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: marshmallow

“BenKenobi”

“Obi Wan Kenobi.

Now, that’s a name I haven’t heard in a looooong time.

A long time.”


4 posted on 01/11/2011 1:10:41 PM PST by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: FatherofFive
Try not to be too disappointed if you reach Heaven and find it filled with both Catholics and Protestants, all of whom have faith in, love, and worship Jesus Christ.*

*If anyone reads this and even for a moment thinks "yeah right," I would wonder how any Christian could object to Heaven being filled with people who love Jesus Christ, regardless of denomination.
5 posted on 01/11/2011 1:22:54 PM PST by TexasAg
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To: fishtank

“That wizard’s just a crazy old man”

Welcome FRiend. :)


6 posted on 01/11/2011 1:38:25 PM PST by BenKenobi (Rush speaks! I hear, I obey)
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To: marshmallow

I believe 1,783 angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Your view?

I should specify that this a metric pin; english pins may differ.


7 posted on 01/11/2011 1:39:34 PM PST by saltus (God's Will be done)
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To: TexasAg

Our concern is not that they will be with us, but that they will not.


8 posted on 01/11/2011 1:39:34 PM PST by BenKenobi (Rush speaks! I hear, I obey)
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To: FatherofFive

The protestant reformation was a rejection of the catholic church, which is basically a medieval monarchy designed to rule men. This offshoot from the early church claims to be the sole heir of all legacy of Christ, yet never notices that Christ never established a government, asked for immense buildings to be built in his honor, or expected anyone to bow down to him. Furthermore, he never created any hierarchy for man to relate to God. Look at how Christ lived on earth, then at the vatican, or at the leaders of most large organized protestant churches, the mormons, etc. The contrast is almost comical.

Catholics are christian, nothing more, nothing less. In terms of this article, they are sect number 26001,,,, that’s it.


9 posted on 01/11/2011 1:52:54 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: FatherofFive

Oh, you fundamentalist Catholics! SOOOOO Cute!

This book actually looks good. As an instructor in Christian/Church History, I’d like to get a copy for our College Library, though its subject matter does tend to be limited, as the reviewer points out....


10 posted on 01/11/2011 1:54:22 PM PST by patriot preacher
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To: marshmallow

The fact remains, that if even one person was executed or tortured by a church claiming to hold the sole legacy of Christ, that it lost whatever claim to the title it ever may have had. Jesus didnt murder.


11 posted on 01/11/2011 2:02:48 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: DesertRhino

“which is basically a medieval monarchy designed to rule men”

Which is why the Church resides in Rome?


12 posted on 01/11/2011 2:05:16 PM PST by BenKenobi (Rush speaks! I hear, I obey)
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To: DesertRhino

Sadly then, it couldn’t be Luther. This is the point this article is trying to drive home.

You have hit on the correct point. Christ did not murder. But Christ did not sin at all.

How can His Church be His Church if the Church is comprised of Sinners? Does he not say, “no one is worthy, not one?” or “Be ye perfect!”


13 posted on 01/11/2011 2:07:45 PM PST by BenKenobi (Rush speaks! I hear, I obey)
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To: BenKenobi

Exactly


14 posted on 01/11/2011 2:08:25 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: BenKenobi
Our concern is not that they will be with us, but that they will not.

I chose my words carefully in my first post. I referred to people who "have faith in, love, and worship Jesus Christ."

Are you therefore of the opinion that in order to be saved, one must "have faith in, love, and worship Jesus Christ and be Catholic"? Conversely, is one not saved if one "has faith in, loves, and worships Jesus Christ and is Protestant"?
15 posted on 01/11/2011 2:15:00 PM PST by TexasAg
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To: BenKenobi

You’re right, back in those days, the catholic church never imprisoned, tortured, or had any heretics burned. So I wouldn’t even worry about it if I were you. But yes,, the church at the time if the reformation was not anything of jesus, and the reform was fully justified.

And a very sane reading if it all is that the roman church split away from christianity by trying to become the ultimate superior, rather than an equal among the early churches,,, as christ intended.


16 posted on 01/11/2011 2:16:56 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: DesertRhino

Rome isn’t medieval. ;)


17 posted on 01/11/2011 2:18:31 PM PST by BenKenobi (Rush speaks! I hear, I obey)
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To: BenKenobi

it’s probably just a coincidence you, but rome was seat of political power in medieval western europe after the split of the roman empire.


18 posted on 01/11/2011 2:21:28 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: TexasAg

My opinion?

“Many who are outside will be inside, and those inside, outside.”

That doesn’t give protestants a pass by arguing because they are outside that they shouldn’t be concerned. A great number of those who consider themselves protestants have strayed.

Fr’instance, if we know now, that hormonal contraception can be an abortifacient, what concern does that make for us, when we know virtually all Protestants permit the use of hormonal contraception?


19 posted on 01/11/2011 2:22:02 PM PST by BenKenobi (Rush speaks! I hear, I obey)
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To: DesertRhino

Look, Rome is ancient, and the Church is ancient. She also is absolutist, but not a monarchy, an absolutist elective republic, the only one of it’s kind.

So let’s get it straight here. She’s neither a monarchy (which is hereditary), nor is she medieval.

Nor was she the seat of power in Medieval western Europe. That would be Aachen.


20 posted on 01/11/2011 2:26:32 PM PST by BenKenobi (Rush speaks! I hear, I obey)
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