Two Revolutions, Two Views of Man

Conservative Underground | July 6, 2010 | Jean F. Drew

[YHAOS]

The Anglo-American view traditionally, historically, is "under God."

Of which there is, ironically, no more articulate chronicler than this remarkable Frenchman.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for sharing your testimony, dear hosepipe!

[Alamo-Girl]

Your position seems to be that if you don't "know everything," then you really can't know anything at all (i.e., with reasonable assurance of validity), so why bother? That is an impossible standard, epistemologically speaking.

Truly said.

Mere mortal minds and sensory perception are quite limited and I believe that, too, is according to God's will.

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. - I Cor 13:12

Jeepers, we are so bound by gravity we can't even sense our momentum in space/time. Neither are the magnitudes of cosmos and quantum intuitive to us.

Thank you for your outstanding essay post, dearest sister in Christ!

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so very much for sharing your testimony, dear sister in Christ, and thank you for those beautiful Scriptures!

Christ, the word of God made flesh. Scripture, the word of God made known.

Truly, the words of God are spirit and life. The words of men are neither spirit nor life.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. - John 6:63

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. – Matt 4:4

Give us this day our daily bread. – Matt 6:11

I am that bread of life. – John 6:48

For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. - Hebrews 4:12

God's Name is I AM.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for sharing your insights, dear YHAOS, and thank you for those beautiful excerpts!

[Alamo-Girl]

Indeed, dearest sister in Christ, contemplation of the holy Names of God is magnificently instructive! There is no better way to come to an understanding of the divine Power that made and continues to rule this universe and the world of men, from Beginning to End.

SO very true.

Thank you for all of your insights and encouragements, dearest sister in Christ!

[kosta50]

Status quo ante is apropos here. The death of a family member may have its momentary effect, but it does not alter the fabric of society any more than does the death of a star alter the structure of the Universe.

Not if you take into account that everything created is unique. With each passing a unique creation is erased never to appear again.

[MHGinTN]

Jesus taught that in ‘that day’ He will raise those in Him again to life. I can guess how that is possible. I trust Him to tell me the truth even over the vast temporal span between me now and His speaking this then.

[kosta50]

That may be true (I emphasize may) for the "saved", but to say that cataclysmic events do not alter the the universe is patently false. No star will ever be "resurrected" to a status quo ante from its ashes. To say that it is insignificant is one thing, to claim it is no change at all is false.

[Quix]

Hmmmmmm

How is it that . . . ah well . . .

maybe you aren’t hostile to opinions!

You sure have tons of them.

My opinion is . . . belief . . . something I accept as fact is . . .

THAT GOD HAS THE DNA of everything to the tiniest subatomic particle . . . and can recreate whatever He wishes to whenever He wishes to.

[kosta50]

My opinion is . . . belief . . . something I accept as fact is . . .THAT GOD HAS THE DNA of everything to the tiniest subatomic particle . . . and can recreate whatever He wishes to whenever He wishes to.

Fair enough Quix. As long as it works for you. I need more than just a virtual sandwich to chew on. :)

[Alamo-Girl]

Emphasis mine:

YHAOS: Status quo ante is apropos here. The death of a family member may have its momentary effect, but it does not alter the fabric of society any more than does the death of a star alter the structure of the Universe.

kosta50: Not if you take into account that everything created is unique. With each passing a unique creation is erased never to appear again.

The underlined part would reflect the worldview of an observer "in" four dimensional 3 space/1 time. Which is to say, time is a linear measurement only, that there is an arrow of time, the past is gone and the future undetermined.

However, the full number and types of dimensions (spatial, temporal, etc.) is both unknown and unknowable.

For instance, with one more expanded dimension of time then no thing (and no event) is lost - past, present and future are concurrent. Observers "in" such a continuum may or may not be able to sense the additional time dimension depending on the observers' coordinates.

But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. – Matt 12:36

God's Name is I AM.

[kosta50]

Not that the following is a pearl to Kosta, but here's an effort to address your query:

Thank you for taking the time and making the effort to try to communicate this.

Assuming first that God IS,

God should NOT have to be assumed.  That which is real (to us) is detectable (to us). If God is real then God should be detectable. Hot stove top doesn't require faith; it will make everyone faithful equally as soon as they touch it. Once you make the a priori assumption that God is, you have answered all your questions. It's a cop out in my opinion.

Literally, what Jesus was teaching Philip was that human limits in dimensional sensing allow Philip to see only the amount of The Father that is in Jesus

But that's not why Jesus became man.  Jesus was incarnate not for us to see the Father, but so that he can die for our sins (God can't die, so God had to acquire human nature in order to die).

God's name is I AM

That's not what the Hebrew word means.

The balance of forces is so delicate for the universe which has brought forth Jesus that God as Holy Spirit sustains it all in this extremely delicate balance

This is interesting because it is seems so bizarre. Where are you getting this from?

So we have God The Creator bringing into existence time, space, and all that there is in the universe

Based on what? Big Bang? We can trace the universe back to a theoretical Big Bang but we have nothing to tell us anything about who or what presumably caused it. Yet you are going into great deal of detail, as if ti were a fact, that goes beyond even a simply proof that God (whatever that may be) is involved.

Literally, everything that is happening is happening because God is sustaining the delicate balance which allows the universe to continue in existence without collapsing or quickly dissipating.

Sounds like a conjecture to me. A high-maintenance one at that.

If you knew the complete physical laws of the universe, including the way God is sustaining the whole in delicate balance, you would be 'seeing what God The Father is doing.' 

So what?

Because the universe is in delicate balance yet is dynamic in nature, events can occur and so long as the physical laws of His universe are not violated, choices by living things can be made.

How does this explain "how it is that Jesus would be God yet pray to The Father in Heaven"?

You could literally say that you are seeing what God is doing, since it is His Holy Spirit that sustains the entire dynamic process of spacetime! Now, how much more power would you have if you comprehended the entire set of laws by which the entire universe is sutained?

You would have no more power than you have now. Understanding doe snot give you power to change.

God chose, as one of the characteristics of this universe, that He would sustain the processes and the physical aspects while leaving open the choices living things can make which effect the universe He is sustaining ...

We are not having an effect on the Creation at all. We could be wiped off the face of the earth tomorrow and nothing would change in the Creation as a whole. I don't know where you are getting this from. This is sci-fi stuff in my book, with exactly zero proof of any reasonable kind.

Sorry.

[kosta50]

However, the full number and types of dimensions (spatial, temporal, etc.) is both unknown and unknowable

So, all we have then is speculation. Thank you for confirming that this whole cosmological fantasy is nothing but specualtion.

[YHAOS]

YHAOS:“The death of a family member may have its momentary effect, but it does not alter the fabric of society any more than does the death of a star alter the structure of the Universe.”

kosta50: “Not if you take into account that everything created is unique.”

I don’t take into account distinctions having no difference.

[Quix]

Thanks for the ping.

[MHGinTN]

Quix, my friend, God has access to all of time. He doesn’t need a ‘storage facility’ where all DNA is kept since the universe is the storage facility because God can visit yesterday or 2000 years ago, as He sees fit.

[MHGinTN]

My view of time is different from yours. I believe since God created time and space He is greater than and has access to all of time, from when He created it until He ‘rolls it all up and puts it away’.

[MHGinTN]

I'm curious, do you see how the following assertion by you is as much a faith in what you believe regarding the universe? ...
"With each passing a unique creation is erased never to appear again."
Mathematically we may show that with a change in geometry, temporal locations you assume to be gone 'never to appear again' are accessible and as such are 'again'.

[kosta50]

My view of time is different from yours. I believe since God created time and space He is greater than and has access to all of time, from when He created it until He ‘rolls it all up and puts it away’

I respect your beliefs, MHGinTN.