The future of the United Methodist Church is at stake (Heresies-R-Us)

May God bless you in that quest and lead you to a denomination and church where the Word is held in proper esteem and the Gospel of Jesus Christ is embraced.

Part of the problem seems to be churches that have a fear of irrelevance in the culture, and the irony is that in seeking to become relevant they succeed in making themselves ultimately irrelevant (heard a great discussion on this the other day).

The sad fact is though that liberalism in all its many forms (political, social, theological) has succeeded in making huge inroads into all facets of American culture. It's an "end justifies the means" ideology, so it bends and breaks the rules to accomplish its goals. I don't know at this point what the solution is for reversing that trend.

someone ordained Chuck Smith....who was it? I assume he goes back through a line of ordained ones. One of my problems with the Mormon church is that Joseph Smith pulled his ordination out of a hat. There is no church that isn’t connected to another...a plant, a sent “ordained” person, something that connects to the historic lineage.

Smith graduated from LIFE Bible College and was ordained as a pastor for the International Church of the Foursquare Gospel. In the late '50s Smith was the campaign manager and worship director for healing evangelist Paul Cain. After being a pastor for a different denomination, he left his denomination to pastor a non-denominational church plant in Corona, California and eventually moved to a church called Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa, California in December 1965. It was the only church on Church Street in Costa Mesa. The church had been planted by Pastor Floyd Nelson as a ministry to shut-in's begun with a small group of people in a mobile home park populated mainly by senior citizens in 1962.[citation needed] From there they moved to a Girl Scout building and eventually to Church Street which is where the church was meeting when Chuck Smith was hired as the "pulpit pastor."

Aren't you already "ordained" as a Methodist minister? Do you not have other "ordained" members of your church who would be willing to "plant" a new church as a breakaway from your current "denomination" into a "non-denominational" church.

X, you aren't starting a new religion. You can carry the Methodist Ordination and the Methodist book of Discipline into your church. You are not breaking away from the Methodist religion. You are simply separating yourself from the current apostates. Wesley broke away from the Anglican church. He certainly didn't start a "cult", but the UMC is quickly becoming one.

If you think you need the presence of an ordained Bishop to continue the book of discipline, is there not a Bishop in your area who is as fed up with the UMC as you?

BTW I suspect that Calvary Chapel would recognize your ordination. If there is not a Calvary Chapel in your area, I'm sure they would not mind planting one as long as you are willing to abide by their doctrinal rules. At any rate the fact is that you are an ordained minister and as such you have as much authority to preach the gospel as anyone else.

You are not starting a new religion. You are simply preserving the old one. Just grab your bible, your book of common prayer and your book of discipline and open the doors to a new church. It would still be Methodist, just not tied to the current apostate branch.

Is there another branch of Methodism that is not circling the drain? Would they be willing to recognize your congregation?

I figured Smith was part of a Christian lineage; otherwise I seriously doubt he’d have had such a real annointing. So far as Methodistic groups there are some that exist: Free, Wesleyan, Nazarene, Evangelical Methodist, Evangelical Congregational, United Brethren, etc. And while I appreciate their better results than in our denomination, there are many that are into tightly wrapped legalisms about hair, wedding bands, clothing, etc. I wouldn’t want to be disruptive in any new group, so I’d be cautious about going to one that would have difficulty with my freedom in Christ.

Incidentally, Wesley never left the Anglican church. The methodist societies were a small group movement within the Anglican church. The Revolutionary war removed almost all Anglican priests from the colonies, and Wesley responded to their inability to receive the sacraments by ordaining a bishop for them. And the rest is history. As a separate body Methodism is really an American phenomenon.

I’ve always liked Calvary Chapel...you know that. And it certainly is high on my list. I’m also from a bit of a liturgical tradition, so there are some things in that tradition valuable to me.

God will guide. I’ve been impressed with gamecock’s description of his UPC, but I’m simply not that kind of determinative, so I’d again be a distraction.

Independent Methodist....I believe in being part of a connection just as the churches were in the New Testament. That’s one of the strengths of the Calvary Chapel movement.

Bottom line as I think back over this that I’ve written is that I’m still in the trying to figure this out mode. Pray for direction for our hurting churches and pastors.

I looked at the ACNA (Anglican Church of N. America) but, while they are very conservative and a rejection of the Episcopal Church, they still hope to be tied to Canterbury some day, and Canterbury is badly broken. They wouldn’t accept my ordination anyway: same for Catholic, Orthodox, Byzantine, etc.

I am looking for another denomination that will fully accept my ordination, be in the historic Christian tradition, not be beset by even a hint of these problems, and believe in salvation by grace through faith. I'm open to everything from A to Z, from Evangelical Congregational to Free Methodist to Orthodox.

All churches, every single one, will have a "hint of these problems." No church is perfect.

But life is way too short to spend it arguing about such fundamentals as the sins of homosexuality and a works-based salvation. There are many PRESBYTERIAN CHURCHES IN AMERICA sprouting up all over the place.

And the UNITED REFORMED CHURCHES IN NORTH AMERICA might be a good place to look, also.

Trust that God will guide your steps. He will plant you where He wants you to continue to grow.

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