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Testimony of a Former Irish Priest
BereanBeacon.Org ^ | Richard Peter Bennett

Posted on 07/18/2010 6:04:05 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

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To: Cronos; OLD REGGIE; Dr. Eckleburg; Iscool; narses; bkaycee; xone; Lera; smvoice; metmom; Jvette

Or OLD REGGIE is saying NOYB, or MYOB, possible?


6,161 posted on 08/03/2010 6:09:32 PM PDT by xone
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To: Quix
BTW, labeling Holy Spirit fostered activity as of the devil is extremely spiritually hazardous.

Anti Catholic activity is demonic,so what you think is the "spirit" is not of Christ and evil.

6,162 posted on 08/03/2010 6:11:11 PM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: stfassisi; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; Amityschild; AngieGal; Ann de IL; aragorn; auggy; autumnraine; ..
from:

http://pages.swcp.com/~thewes51/swccc10.html?GXHC_gx_session_id_FutureTenseContentServer=18598115b2ce52e9

The 2010 Conference Theme is

Behold, I make all things new!” (Rev.21:5)

 
The 2010 Southwest Catholic Charismatic Conference will be here sooner than you think!

 

 

The registration fee is $45.00 per adult registrant and $5.00 for children & youth.  Check back frequently because more information is coming soon!  You can begin registering now. 

 

 

Date:  August 13-15, 2010

Location:  Glorieta Conference Center in Glorieta, N.M. It's a beautiful drive about 20 miles north of Santa Fe.

 

Fr. George Montague, SM

Fr. Daniel Balizan

Michael Cumbie

Archbishop Michael Sheehan

Sr. Magdalena Casas-Nava, DLJC

Fr. Alfredo Gaytan, SOLT

Children- Disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ and others.

Youth-The 4 D’s from St. Thomas Aquinas Parish

 

There will also be a special session in Spanish, one for children, and another for youth!

 

 

Complete it and send it along with the          
appropriate fee to:

Catholic Charismatic Center

1412 Fifth St. NW
Albuquerque, New Mexico87102 Phone:  (505) 247-0397 Fax: (505) 843-9147

 


6,163 posted on 08/03/2010 6:11:44 PM PDT by Quix (THE PLAN of the Bosses: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2519352/posts?page=2#2)
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To: Mad Dawg
Well, it didn't take Luther, .......long to become deadly.

Luther became deadly? How many did he kill? Or did statists claiming to follow his doctrine kill? Same old BS. Just upthread, he was enough of a paragon to be quoted supporting some Catholic doctrine, now he is a killer? Must be Tuesday.

6,164 posted on 08/03/2010 6:17:15 PM PDT by xone
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To: Quix

Are You Charismatic or Catholic?
http://www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/currenterrors/Charism.htm
“For false Christ’s and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.” - Mark 13:22

By Raymond Taouk

The Origin of the present day Charismatic Movement can be traced back to the “holiness movement” which was began in the late 19th century in the united states by the Protestant preacher Charles fox Parham who began preaching (1901) to his topeka congregation that speaking in tongues was objective evidence of baptism in the spirit. After the Los Angeles mission of Parham’s apostolic faith sect became the center of a great revival (1906) the movement quickly spread around the world. Over the next two decades the movement split along doctrinal and racial lines. Today the Charismatics generally go by the name of “pentecostalist” although the term “Charismatic” is the more generally used since this sect doesn’t limits beliefs to is own denomination.

The Charismatic movement gained its influence into the post Conciliar Church with the efforts of various individuals such as Cardinal Suenens and Kevin Ranaghan who helped deceived a number of well meaning Catholics into thinking this would be a great way of being united with those outside the Church while learning to “experience the holy spirit”. The Catholic Promoters of this Pentecostal movement have been moved far from orthodox in their faith (2 Thess 2:14). That is why Archbishop Dwyer, of Portland, Oregon, in a scathing criticism of the charismatic movement, warned in 1974: “We regard it bluntly as one of the most dangerous trends in the Church in our time, closely allied in spirit with other disruptive and divisive movements threatening grave harm to unity and damager to countless souls.”

Charismatic Movement and False Ecumenism

Let us also be greatly aware that this Charismatic Movement in the Catholic Church is founded on a sin against the Faith. As Bishop Louis LaRavoire Morrow, S.T.D points out, “A Catholic sins against Faith by taking part in non-Catholic worship, because he thus professes belief in a religion he knows to be false.” This is because participation in Non Catholic worship has always been forbid (See Canon’s 1258,1063,2319,1325 of the 1917 code of Canon Law). Yet by the admission of Catholic Charismatic pioneer, Kevin Ranaghan, the movement began with Catholics performing the grotesque ritual of seeking a spiritual blood transfusion from the dead corpse of Protestantism, and proclaiming that God “filled them to overflowing with the spirit” for doing so. Such collaborating and “seeking the holiness of the Holy Spirit” from anathematized heretics cannot be a religious movement truly of God but rather diabolic Movement of deception. While no one claims that those who belong to this Movement are necessarily all evil or persons of ill intent, yet this is beside the point. Since the movement itself is founded on principles that contradict the Faith.

The false notion of Ecumenical worship as proclaimed by the Charismatic Movement was long ago condemned by Pope Pius XI and Pope Pius XII who (basing their teaching on the unchanging tradition of the Church rather than the progressive novelties of liberal theologians) warned against the dangers of interfaith activity. Pius XI in Mortalium Animos taught that though St. John recounted Our Lord’s prayer “that all may be one”, as well as Christ’s command “to love one another”, “nevertheless, he (St. John) strictly forbade any intercourse with those who professed a mutilated and corrupted form of Christ’s teaching. For ‘If any man come to you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into thy house, nor say to him, God speed you.”

Pope Pius XI further castigated interfaith projects, stating, “...It is clear that the Apostolic See can by no means take part in these assemblies, nor is it in any way lawful for Catholics to give such enterprises their encouragement or support. If they did so, they would be giving countenance to a false Christianity, quite alien to the one Church of Christ” (Moralium Animos, Jan 6, 1928).

The Charismatic movement being a product of such forbidden activities needed to acquire the mock-sacrament of a false religion (“baptism in the spirit”) for its impetus. Hence it acts in haughty disdain of Pius XI’s directives.

Speaking in Tongues?

Accompanying the so called “speaking in Tongues” the Charismatics will often be found screaming the name of “Jesus” or rolling on the floor, or making ecstatic utterances frequently unintelligible to listeners. In the history of the Church such behavior has always been condemned. In fact in Scripture it is only those who have been possessed by devils that can not restrain themselves from acting in such a manner. That is why most theologians agree that one of the signs of demonic possession is the speaking in strange or unintelligible tongues. I will quote a few as follows:

“According to the roman ritual, other signs of possession include ‘the ability to speak with some familiarity in a strange tongue or to understand it when spoken by another; the faculty of divulging future and hidden events; and the display of powers which are beyond the subject’s age and natural condition.’” (joseph ecanem, ph.d., demonic possession, p. 23)

“The catholic church still defines true signs of possession as displaying superhuman strength, often accompanied by fits and convulsions; changes in personality; having knowledge of the future or other secret information; and being able to understand and converse in languages not previously known to the victim, such as the phenomenon glossolalia. Early puritan ministers and later protestant clergy agreed on the same symptoms for declaring a person demonically possessed. In many incidences there was a complete ignorance of the person’s medical condition and behavior.” (Michael foreman, ph.d., a short history of diabolical possession, p. 59)

one of the signs of possession as listed in the rituale romanum is as follows: “to speak unknown languages (xenoglosia) and to sustain conversations in such languages, as well as to understand the languages that are spoken.” (Rituale romanum)

Further the Charismatics seem to have forgotten the words of St Paul regarding how a person should behave himself in the Church. St Paul tells us “ Thou know how thou should behave thyself in the house of God, which is the Church of the living God the pillar and ground of the Truth” (1 Timothy 3:15). In fact when dealing with the issue of “speaking in tongues” he expressly states that “all things be done decently and according to order” (1 Cor 14:40), which is something that Charismatics totally ignore.

“The Holy Spirit”?

The Charismatic Movement often claim to magnifies the Holy Spirit, yet the scriptures tell us the role of the holy spirit is to magnify Christ, as we read “But when He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will teach you all truth. For He shall not speak of himself he will speak only what he hears and he will tell you what is yet to come, He Shall Glorify ME; because He shall receive of mine, and Shall make it known to you” (John 16:13).

One of the characteristics of Charismatics is that it goes to excess on a detail, but loses the big picture of the Catholic and Apostolic Faith. It is this excess of sensual “experience of the Holy spirit” that is the problem, which some are trying to substitute for the Roman Catholic Faith.

The Charismatic approach to the Holy Ghost makes Him subservient to their emotions and personal conveniences, when on the contrary our faith teaches us that grace is a free gift given by God which He is not necessitated to give but only does so out of His free will (1 Corinth 4:7).

What is more is that they not only make God subservient to their emotions but also make their “experience” with the Holy Spirit into their new Magesterium, since who needs the Church if we all have a direct line with the Holy Spirit which we can activate according to our own likings! This is confirmed by the fact that the Charismatics will often refuse to admit that their “experience of the spirit” could be nothing more than a diabolic delusion or simply an intensification of ones own emotions. And so this Charismatic heresy is based on the erroneous notion that emotional experience always accompanies the conferral of grace, whereas the Catholic doctrine is that the only sensible indication of the conferral of grace is the sacramental sign itself.

The Catholic church has a marvelous two-thousand year history of “discernment of spirits” by which God has given us means (Spiritual tools) to use in order to discern the spirit of truth from that of error. Yet this Movement ignores Catholic teaching on the discernment of spirits. As we see often see Lay people lay hands on an individual, the individual gets a “rush”, and immediately proclaims that he is “full of the Spirit.” This is shocking presumption according to Catholic teaching.

The great mystical writer and Doctor of the Church, St. John of the Cross, warned that souls must flee from seeking such manifestations: “ I greatly fear what is happening in these times of ours: If any soul whatever after a bit of meditation has in its recollection one of these locutions, it will immediately baptize all as coming from God and with such a supposition say, ‘God told me,’ ‘God answered me.’ Yet this is not so, but, as we pointed out, these persons themselves are more often the origin of their locution.” (The Ascent of Mount Carmel. Book II Ch. 29)

It is this very spirituality which the Charismatic movement is based on which has long ago condemned by the Church and her great saints and theologians, precisely because it leads people to delude themselves.

St. Vincent Ferrer, who was well known for the thousands of miracles and conversions he work, nevertheless openly condemned this false form of spirituality when he stated that:

” The soul that attaches itself to these false consolations falls into very dangerous errors, for God justly permits the devil to have power to augment in it these kinds of spiritual tastes, to repeat them frequently, and to inspire it with sentiments that are false, dangerous, and full of illusions, but which the misguided soul imagines to be true. Alas! How many souls have been seduced by these deceitful consolations? The majority of raptures and ecstasies, or, to call them by their proper name, frenzies of these fore runners of Antichrist spring from this cause. Hence, the only consolation you should admit into your soul in time of prayer, is that which is produced by the consciousness of your nothingness and misery; a consciousness which will preserve you in humility, and inspire you with profound reverence and the desire that he may be honored and glorified. Consolations such as these cannot mislead. “ - Life of St. Vincent Ferrer, By Fr. Andrew Pradel, London 1875, Pg. 183

“Experience the Holy Spirit” - Go to Mass!

The principle work of the Holy Ghost is the sanctification of the soul (1 Thess 4:3) through grace and not some hyperactive movement of our emotions. This work of sanctification is accomplished by means of worthy reception of the sacraments. This is reason Christ instituted a Church, in order to impart to His members the life of grace through the sacraments.

For this reason the Church has always affirmed that a most powerful outpouring of Gods grace is given to us every time the Holy sacrifice of the Mass is offered. In his well known work “The Incredible Catholic Mass” (Tan Books) Fr. Martin Cochem, elaborates the 77 Graces and Fruits to be Derived from Devout Attendance at Holy Mass and concludes with the words “What dost thou now think of the holy Mass O Christian? Can it be supposed that in the whole world there is any other good work whereby so many graces and fruits are placed within our reach? If Christians only knew how to profit by holy Mass, they might acquire greater riches than are to be found in all the things God has created.”

The Mass being an official prayer of the Church, is non-other than the prayer of Christ Himself who continually offers Himself in intersection for us (Heb 7:25).

Catholic Devotions

Since the outpouring of the Holy Ghost is not limited to the sacraments alone, the Church has always recommend various other means by which God works the sanctification of her members, such as the various sacramentals, (i.e. Holy Water, Scapular), the various and private prayers, not to mention the other public prayers of the Church such as are found in the Roman Breviary. For this reason the Church encourages us to “Pray without ceasing” (1 Thess 5:17).

What is more is that amongst these devotion are found those such as the devotion to the Sacred Heart, which has been practiced and recommended by a great number of Saints. What surer path is there to sanctity than drawing closer to the Heart of God!

Further more, the Rosary itself is another most ample means of drawing Gods grace and blessing up ourselves and those around us. St. Pope St. Pius X in expressing the mind of a number of Popes and saints on this issue states that “ There is nothing more excellent, it seems to us, than that numerous voices are uninterruptingly and from many parts of the world simultaneously lifting supplications to the Blessed Virgin Mary as they meditate on the Christian mysteries, so that the blessings of her maternal goodness may not cease to descend upon the Church.”

Hence what real pretension have Catholics to claim they have need to partake in works of the Charismatic sects in order to obtain the abundant outpouring of the Holy Ghost.

No Second Pentecost!

Contrary to what the Charismatics claim, their will never be a second Pentecost. The reason being that the first Pentecost was for the purpose of fulfilling Our Lords promise to send the Holy Ghost (John 15:26) and to confirm the divine Origin of the Church which had by the Coming of the Holy Ghost had been established once and for all, for the redemption of the mankind. For this reason St. Paul explicitly states that “For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid: which is Christ Jesus” (1 Cor 3:11). In other words the foundation of the Church which Christ has placed can not be re-founded or established. This is not only confirmed by the fact that the Church which Christ founded is indefectible (Matt 16:18-19) but also from the fact that all heretics who have every made the claim of a “second Pentecost” have always been condemned.

In this regard the charismatic movement is similar to that of many of the “spiritual” groups that have arisen in the history of the Church and which consequently merited by their strange beliefs and practices the condemnation of the Church. Chief among these were the Joachimites, followers of Joachim of Fiore in the 12th Century, who held the history of the world to be divided into three distinct phases, each corresponding to a person of the blessed trinity. Thus, the first age of the world was marked by God the Fathers majestic rule, the second by the wisdom of the son and his Church, and the third age (still to come) by the Holy Ghost in an outpouring of universal love. This teaching was condemned by Pope Alexander IV after Joachim’s death, in the 13th Century (Joachim of Flora, the Catholic Encyclopedia, Charles Herbermann, et al, eds, New york,1909).

Appeal to Scripture and History

Charismatics will often attempt to appeal not only to scripture but also the History of the Church to promote their efforts, yet if we look into both scripture and Church history we find that such efforts are clearly confounded.

We read in scripture that on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Ghost descend upon the Apostles they spoke in tongues in such a way that while they were actually speaking in their own language they were understood by those present in their own native language (Acts 2:4 cf also, The Baltimore Catechism No. 3Q46 Pg.89).

What is more is that nowhere in Acts of the Apostles do we read that in order prepare themselves for the reception of the Holy Ghost, the apostle or disciples began to show forth hysterical signs or actions that where not in keeping with Christian modesty for as numerous spiritual authors have pointed out, God speaks to us in silence (3 Kings 19:12) and not by means of hyperactive motions. That is why we read that in the Acts of the Apostles that “All these (Apostles) were persevering with one mind in prayer with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus” (Acts 1:14). And so if we desire the abundance of Gods grace we also must unite ourselves in prayer “with Mary the mother of Jesus”, who is truly the Mediatrix of all graces.

Further when St. Paul deals with the issue of speaking in tongues in the fourteenth chapter of his first letter to the Corinthians, he gives them some precise instructions, for example he firmly states that such person are to speak in such a manner that they are understood by the congregation for “If then I know not the power of the voice, I shall be to him to whom I speak a barbarian: and he that speaks a barbarian to me.” (1 Cor 14:11). This is because the soul purpose of speaking in tongues must be the edification of the Church and NOT the sensual gratification of the individual. For this reason, St. Paul goes on to say “ But in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may instruct others also: than ten thousand words in a tongue.”

What is more is that St. Paul is unhesitant to tells the Corinthians in this instruction (1 Cor 14:34) “Let women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted them to speak (in the Church)”. How many Charismatics observe such commands?

St. Paul stresses the fact that all Charisms are imperfect in comparison with Charity, which is far more superior, for this reason he tells the Corinthians “But be zealous of the better gifts. And I show unto you yet a more excellent way” (I Cor. XII :31). What is this better way? Well St. Paul goes on to explain in the thirtheen chapter to the Corinthians that this better way is Charity: “And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.”

The Catholic faith is built on the supernatural virtues of Faith, Hope and Charity and not on Charisms which are only lower gifts. For this reason St. Macarius Magnus (4th Century) states “In comparison with Charity which is perfect, these gifts are of little consequence and those who are at that level can fall while those who have Charity do not fall. I tell you that I have seen men who have received all the Charisms and who have become participants in the Spirit and who nonetheless fell because they did not achieve perfect Charity”. (Spiritual Homilies, II, 27, 14)

Further the Charismatic idea of trying to revive the phenomenon of the early Church’s Charisma was an error the Montanist’s fell into in 170 A.D. These heretics were anathematized by the Church. This is because the “Charismata” of speaking tongues enabled the early Church to spread to the ends of the known world rapidly and become well established before the death of the apostles. That is why St. Paul in his second epistle to the Corinthians, explains the purpose of the gifts was simply to build up the Church and not for the sanctification of those whom the gifts were given.

The Catholic Church today now contains people of every nation. What need could there possibly be of the gift of tongues for evangelization? Sine the Catholic Church has a 2000-year record as the true religion, what further need has she to prove her claims. Wherefore St. Augustine (354-430) declares that , “ whereas even now the Holy Ghost is received yet no one speaks in tongues of all nations, because the Church already speaks in the languages of all nations. Since whoever is not in the Church, receives not the Holy Ghost” (Tract. XXXII, in Joan). Elsewhere he also affirms that “these [glossolalia] were miracles suited to the times.... Is it now expected that they upon whom hands are laid, should speak with tongues? Or when we imposed our hand upon these children, did each of you wait to see whether they would speak with tongues? and when he saw that they did not speak with tongues, were any of you so perverse of heart as to say “these have not received the Holy Ghost”? —St. Augustine, Ep. Joan., tr. vi.)

The apostle St Paul warns us against such false movements saying “ In those last days some shall depart from the faith giving heed to spirits of error and doctrines of devils” (1 Timothy 4:2). This movement is essentially a substitution of emotion for faith and good will for sound doctrine. It is a stepping stone to occultism. For this reason the Charismatic Movement bears a striking resemblance to the occultic New Age movement and several heresies condemned by the Church:

Below is an example of some of those heresies and the resemblance:

New age Movement. It is a pan-denominational movement with a non-Catholic principle as its unifying factors, in this case, “baptism in the spirit”. It offers a religion of EXPERIENCE. Charismatics never really provide a satisfactory theological explanation of “baptism of the spirit,” but emphasize that it is something that must be experienced. Yet the Scriptures Say you are complete in Christ, (COL 2:9).

* Messalianism, a heresy that originated in Mesopotamia in A.D. 360. The Messalians denied that the Sacraments give grace and declared that the only spiritual power is prayer leading to possession by the Holy Spirit. Such “possession” eventually led to immorality, from which they were also called “The Filthy.” Various bishops and councils of the Church condemned them.

* Montanism, a heresy that claimed the Holy Spirit superseded the revelation of Christ and was supplementing the revelation of Christ, such that they were acting under a “new outpouring of the Spirit.” This heresy takes the name of its founder, Monatanus, who began to be carried away by “inspiration”, by which would fall into a sudden seizure and start raving in his speech, speaking with a strange tongue. Pope St. Zephyrinus (199-217) denied them communion with the Church.

* Protestantism, a heresy that originated with Martin Luther in 1517. This heresy denies the existence of a visible hierarchical Church but holds to an invisible “spiritual Church of the predestined”, while also claiming that prophetic inspiration is given to each individual believer to understand the Word of God infallibly.

* Jansenism, a 16th Century heresy that tried to incorporate the errors of Protestantism into the Catholic faith. Like Protestantism it failed to make the distinction between nature and grace in such a way that they erroneously held that grace was due to nature, since it maintained with Protestantism that by original sin mans nature had been totally destroyed so that without grace it could not even do natural good. The Jansenists confused grace with the feeling of consolation while claiming that only those who are totally spiritual (i.e. the Jansenists) can be sure that they are predestined and this was assurance was to be seen in living a life away from the sacraments and abandoning oneself to “the grace of God”.


6,165 posted on 08/03/2010 6:17:59 PM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: stfassisi
FROM:

http://www.sdcursillo.org/SpiritDir/SpiritDirResources.html

Fuller Seminary: Has a masters program in Spiritual Direction

Retreat Centers for spiritual direction:


Training as a Spiritual Director:

Spiritual Ministry Center in collaboration with the University of San Diego: 2 year certificate program

School for Charismatic Spiritual Directors.

The Pecos Monastery, NM

Monastery of the Risen Christ-School for Spiritual Directors, San Luis Obispo, CA

Spiritual Directors International
HELP IN FINDING A SPIRITUAL DIRECTOR
Spiritual Ministry Center:
Operated by the Religious of the Sacred Heart, a group of Roman Catholic sisters who originally established the San Diego College for Women, now the University of San Diego, a Roman Catholic sponsored four year university.

Address: 4822 Del Mar Avenue (in Ocean Beach)
San Diego, CA 92107
(619) 224-9444

Available for information; retreats tailored to one’s needs-6, 8, 30 day retreats or self-directed; library; recommended books; spiritual directors available; training to be a spiritual director.
Episcopal Diocesan Office:
The Rev. Canon Jennifer Vervynck, Canon for the Development ∓mp;mp; Nurture of Ministry
(619) 291-5947

Your priest could refer you to someone.


APPENDIX

A very short alphabetical list of 13 primarily foundational books about spiritual direction compiled from three sources: Bibliography in Soul Friend (49 books listed); prioritized list from Internet site-Amazon.com on spiritual direction (115 books currently listed); and about 10 recommendations from the Spiritual Ministry Center.

6,166 posted on 08/03/2010 6:22:32 PM PDT by Quix (THE PLAN of the Bosses: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2519352/posts?page=2#2)
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To: Quix
Fuller Seminary:

This is a factory of New Age - Rick Warren and many others come from this cesspool

6,167 posted on 08/03/2010 6:25:23 PM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: presently no screen name
"Hey, bucko, you are way out of line! Take off the control freak hat. I'm not one of the RCC 'subjects'!

You are going to have to be right a couple of times and respectful you earn anyone's respect, you can't command respect.....and oh, no one respects your "authoratay".

6,168 posted on 08/03/2010 6:28:09 PM PDT by Natural Law (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: Quix; stfassisi

Didn’t see anything about snakes or tongues...

I wonder about what the grof is when the serpent moves from the base of the spine to the base of the tongue. I’d be really interested in at least that portion of glossolalia that encompasses extreme antiCatholic and, really, antiChristian ideas. Or is the mechanism to express it, anyway.


6,169 posted on 08/03/2010 6:32:23 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Quix
http://www.sdcursillo.org/index.html says that:

The San Diego Episcopal Cursillo community was founded to meet the growing spiritual needs of Episcopalians in the Diocese of San Diego.

So what is the Cursillo community? This website gives us:

What is Cursillo?
Cursillo is a movement of the church. Its purpose is to help those in the church understand their individual callings to be Christian Leaders. The leadership may be exercised in work situations, in the family and social life, in leisure activities, and within the Church environment. Leadership, in Cursillo, does not mean power over others, but influence on others; all of us need to be aware that we can exert a positive influence on those around us.

What is the Goal of Cursillo?
The goal of Cursillo is the goal of the Church: to bring all to Christ. This is done when informed, trained leaders set out with the support of others having a similar commitment.

What does Cursillo do?
It helps to renew and deepen Christian commitment. Cursillo is one of many renewal movements. Many people have said Cursillo provides an important learning experience which causes many to feel like newly made Christians with a purpose and with support.

What is the Cursillo Movement About?
Cursillo is patterned on Jesus' own example. He searched out and called a small group of potential leaders (pre-Cursillo); He trained them by word and example and inspired them with a vision (Cursillo Three-Day Weekend); He linked them together and sent them out into the world to bring the world to Him (post-Cursillo or the Fourth Day).

What is Spiritual Direction?
Spiritual Direction is an important element of the Cursillo Movement. It is a commitment to seek out skilled lay persons or clergy for spiritual direction to provide help in deepening their union with Christ.

Are there Cursillo Secrets?
You may have been told by some who have attended the weekend that they cannot tell you what Cursillo is all about or what goes on during a Cursillo weekend.
This is not correct. Everything that goes on during the weekend may be told to anyone. Cursillo literature is available to anyone who wishes to read or purchase the materials.

So we have a fringe movement which is antiCatholic and encompasses some the fringe lunatics on the edge of Catholicism. And? Luther was one such. So was Marcion. So is the womynpriest movement. And? Do you have anything else?

6,170 posted on 08/03/2010 6:39:41 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: OLD REGGIE
so much of this Tradition is completely extraneous to Scripture.

While I think we have answers, I do think that this is the most fruitful line of enquiry.

6,171 posted on 08/03/2010 6:42:13 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee. here)
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To: Quix
I confess. I had help. Tee hee.

How much time did it take to become effective?

6,172 posted on 08/03/2010 6:43:26 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr
So we have a fringe movement which is antiCatholic and encompasses some the fringe lunatics on the edge of Catholicism. And? Luther was one such. So was Marcion. So is the womynpriest movement. And? Do you have anything else?

Well said,Mark

6,173 posted on 08/03/2010 6:45:13 PM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: Iscool; D-fendr
Mary is not the mother of God since God was not conceived in Mary's womb...

But Jesus was conceived in Mary's womb.

Therefore Jesus was not God when he was conceived.

Q.E.D.

6,174 posted on 08/03/2010 6:51:00 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee. here)
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To: Quix
BTW, labeling Holy Spirit fostered activity as of the devil is extremely spiritually hazardous.

I'd say that the habit of some here to proclaim what is the opposite is even worse. Labelling the fruits of demons as the fruits of the Holy Spirit and including them in fringe cult proclamations goes against the 2000 years of Orthodoxy and the commands of Jesus that the Church takes seriously:

Matthew 12: 31 Therefore, I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit 22 will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Labeling the Holy Spirit responsible for the breakaway cults from the Church seems like it is speaking against the Holy Spirit to me. If I were in a fringe cult speaking in tongues and handling snakes, I'd really really watch what I claimed was from the Holy Spirit. It isn't Charles Parham that will stand in the place of each Pentecostal adherent on Judgement Day.

6,175 posted on 08/03/2010 6:51:11 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr; Quix

Here is what the Catholic Church says about some of this.

By Cardinal Ratzinger before Pope Benedict XVI..
http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/charismatic_renewal.htm

The Church clearly wishes to follow a middle course, between a rationalistic skepticism and a blind credulity in alleged workings of the Holy Spirit. In the past the Church had condemned what it called Pentecostalism, understood as the total dependence, even theologically, on the presence and manifestation of charisms. Such a dependence is blind, for it fails to allow itself to be guided by the full content of the faith and the judgement of the Church’s teaching authority. It is total when such “gifts” displace the means of grace in the life of the Christian, such as the sacraments. On the other hand, the Church cannot condemn charisms, since they are part of the patrimony of our apostolic faith. What we have seen in our time is the appearance of the Charismatic Renewal, an apparent outpouring of the extraordinary charisms. This doesn’t mean that one has to be a charismatic, that charismatics are better Catholics, or that every alleged charism is authentic. Yet, as the Council noted, the Church must respect the workings of God, discerning the authentic from the inauthentic.

An authentic charism would not pull one away from the Church. If a Catholic leaves, seeking an emotional boost he no longer finds in the Church, he is seeking the gifts of the Giver and not the Giver of the gifts. Participation in the life of the Church should lead any Catholic (Charismatic, traditional, or ordinary) into a deeper relationship with the Eucharist, the Blessed Mother and the Pope. If it does not, something is spiritually wrong with that particular individual or with the guidance he is receiving within his group. Since a charism does not give the person any special infallibility or sanctity, given the extraordinary character of such gifts it is especially necessary for individuals possessing them to guard the purity of their faith, lest pride, self-seeking or emotionalism lead them astray, and they others. The reality that some have left the Church for Pentecostalism, or sought to create it within, points to the dangers. By contrast, the presence in the Church of a dynamic and faithful institution like the Franciscan University of Steubenville is evidence of the great good that can be done by those graced with authentic charismatic gifts exercised in union with the Church.

All such authentic charisms, therefore, are at the service of the Body of Christ, the Church (1 Cor 12, 14). As gifts of the Holy Spirit, they are supernatural graces beyond the power of human striving and human nature (e.g. miracle working), though some may build upon the natural talents of the recipient (e.g. teaching). St. Paul contrasts these charismata with “the greater gifts” of Faith, Hope and Charity (1 Cor. 13), which he says have lasting value. These “theological virtues” unite the person’s mind and will to God. As a consequence, the Church teaches that Faith, Hope and Charity are necessary for salvation but the charismata are not. St. Paul’s experience at Corinth demonstrated rather early in the Church how susceptible these charisms are to exaggeration. In another context, he would even warn the Corinthians that the devil can appear as an angel of light (1 Cor 11:14). Similarly, both St. Peter and St. John (1 Pet 5:8-9; 1 John 4:1) warn us of this danger.

St. Thomas Aquinas in his Summa Theologiae [ST II-II q172 a2] tells us that unless a charism requires the exercise of divine power the Holy Spirit accomplishes it through the mediation of the holy angels. When they are within the power of the angelic nature, they are also capable of demonic imitation. It is difficult to explain the “charismatic power of speech” of a Hitler, for instance, on purely natural grounds. It is for these reasons that most spiritual writers, especially the mystical doctor St. John of the Cross, warn us not to seek such extraordinary phenomenon. As noted earlier, Vatican II made this warning part of its teaching on the charismatic gifts.

Thus the Church on the one hand recognizes that the Holy Spirit moves where He will, and so she does not want to oppose His working, and on the other, that the Church must discern the authenticity of each charism, lest it be a deception of the evil one. For this reason to say that the Charismatic Renewal is approved by the Church is not a blanket approval of every alleged charismatic gift or every charismatic group or individual within the Church. The discernment of the Holy Spirit’s action is an ongoing necessity within the Church and within the Charismatic Renewal.


6,176 posted on 08/03/2010 7:03:03 PM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: stfassisi; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; ...
Some mostly tolerably balanced

ROMAN CATHOLIC SOURCES AND/OR CORDIALLY RELATED SOURCES

DISCUSSIONS

ETC. ON THE CHARISMATIC RENEWAL WITHIN THE ROMAN CATHOLIC SYSTEM, TOPIC:

http://www.catholiccharismatic.us/

.

Jesus Is Lord!

CCC logo

The Catholic Charismatic Center on the World Wide Web

Serving the members of the Charismatic Renewal in the Roman Catholic Church since October, 1995.

Welcome to the www.catholiccharismatic.us web site and message board (forum).

Many people who visit the www.catholiccharismatic.us web site see only five or six discussion topics listed on the right side of the screen.

If you haven't already done so, try clicking on the [Access Forum] link at the bottom of the list on the right. This will give you access to the complete forum database. There are over three hundred topics and about 1800 messages in the database. Some of the topics were started as long ago as 2003.About 90% of the topics pertain directly to the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.

You will need to be registered to reply to an old, or start a new, topic.

Please note that this forum is meant to serve as a resource for producers of CCR related newsletters.

The forum is not meant as a place to debate with, or denigrate, those in the CCR.

As a resource for the CCR on the Web, we are hoping for brief reports of God's signs and wonders, evidence of charismatic activities, testimonies, announcements of Catholic charismatic events, OP-ED articles about the CCR or about the baptism in the Holy Spirit, We also are looking for articles about scriptural and/or theological reflections on the work of Jesus Christ and His Holy Spirit.

Thanks.

.

http://www.catholiccharismatic.us/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=index

. The time now is Aug 04, 2010 - 04:54 AM
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&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

http://www.catholiccharismaticny.org/3rd_06_ignite.pdf

Fairly scholarly book on the topic with extensive excerpts. Appears to be written somewhat from the RC viewpoint.

http://www.ecampus.com/book/9780520204690

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Charismatic_Renewal

Catholic Charismatic Renewal

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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The Catholic Charismatic Renewal is a movement within the Catholic Church. Worship is characterized by vibrant Masses, as well as prayer meetings featuring prophecy, healing and "speaking in tongues." This movement is based on the belief that certain charismata (a Greek word for gifts), bestowed by the Holy Spirit, such as the abilities to speak in tongues and to heal (which Christians generally believe existed in the early Church as described in the Bible) should still be practiced today.

A dove, symbolizing the Holy Spirit, who is believed by Christians to confer various gifts.

A Catholic church in Ann Arbor, Michigan describes charismatic prayer:

"A charismatic style of prayer is common at Christ the King. People are free to raise their hands in prayer and during songs, many pray their own prayers audibly, some pray in tongues, etc.... They pray with expressive or charismatic prayer at monthly parish prayer meetings, at the beginning of parish meetings, and most especially during certain moments in the Holy Mass. These are some of the external markers of a charismatic parish. Internal markers include a radical surrender to the Lordship of Jesus Christ in all parts of life, a strong adherence to the Gospel and the teachings of the Catholic Church, and the pursuit of strong friendships centered on Christ."[1]

Contents

[hide]

[edit] Origins

Pentecost by El Greco

The Catholic Charismatic Renewal as it exists today is the outgrowth from a retreat held in February 1967 of several faculty members and students from Duquesne University, a Catholic university in Pittsburgh operated by the Congregation of the Holy Spirit (a Catholic religious order founded in France in 1703). Many of the students - though not all - claimed to have experienced a movement of God’s Spirit called being “baptized in the Holy Spirit.” The professors had previously been “baptized in the Spirit” a week or two before. Believers felt that "God’s action" was also prepared for in a very human way by the students’ prayerful preparation in reading the Acts of the Apostles and a book entitled The Cross and the Switchblade[2]. What happened quickly spread to graduate students and professors at the University of Notre Dame and others serving in campus ministry in Lansing, Michigan. The movement was given a major endorsement by Léo Joseph Cardinal Suenens (1904–1996), a leading cardinal in the Catholic Church and one of four moderators of the Second Vatican Council.[3]

[edit] The Catholic Charismatic Renewal Today

The Eucharist being elevated during a Catholic Charismatic Renewal Healing Service, in which the faithful not only pray for spiritual and physical healings, but also for miracles.
Praise and Worship during a CCR Healing Service.

As of 2003, the Catholic Charismatic Renewal exists in over 230 countries in the world, having touched over 119 million members [4]. Participants in the Renewal also cooperate with non-Catholic Christians and other Catholics in providing a common witness for evangelization, as encouraged by the Catholic Church.[5]

The Charismatic element of the Church is still as evident today as it was in the early days of Christianity. Some Catholic Charismatic Communities do Healing services / Gospel Power Services / Outreaches / Evangelizations where the tangible presence of the Holy Spirit is felt, and healings and miracles take place [6]. The mission of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal is to educate believers into the totality of the decleration of the gospels. This is done by a personal relationship with Jesus Christ; a one-to-one relationship with Jesus is seen as a possibility by the Chrismatic. He is encouraged to talk to Jesus directly and search for what The Lord is saying so that his life will be one with Him; this is what the Charismatic understands by giving his life to Jesus. Conscience is seen as an alternative voice of Jesus Christ.[7] The charisms as identified in Saint Paul's writings, especially in Romans 12:6-8, 1 Corinthians 12-14, and Ephesians 4:11-12, continue to exist and to build up the Church (see Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2003). The nine charismatic gifts considered extraordinary in character include: faith, expression of knowledge and wisdom, miracles, the gift of tongues and their interpretation, prophecy, discernment of spirits and healing (1 Corinthians 12:8-10; cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2003).[8] These gifts are related to the traditional seven gifts of the Holy Spirit described in Isaiah 11:1-2 (wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord, as listed in Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1831). The nine charismatic gifts in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10 are also related to the spiritual and corporal works of mercy.[9] Other references to charisms in the Catechism of the Catholic Church include Sections 688, 768, 799-801, 890, 951, 1508 (charism of healing), 2035.

The continuing fruitfulness of this current of grace is apparent in its very practical theological writings. Ralph Martin, a leading figure for decades in the Renewal in the United States, has provided an introduction to deep prayer in his popular book The Fulfillment of all Desire: A Guidebook for the Journey to God Based on the Wisdom of the Saints. Fr. Michael Scanlan, another longtime leader of the Renewal and former President of Franciscan University of Steubenville, Ohio, has authored an introduction to the discernment of spirits entitled What Does God Want?: A Practical Guide to Making Decisions.

[edit] Reaction from the Church hierarchy

Pope John Paul II

The initial reaction to the movement by the Church hierarchy was cautiously supportive. Some initially supported it as being a harbinger of ecumenism (greater unity of Gospel witness among the different Christian traditions). It was thought that these practices would draw the Catholic Church and Protestant communities closer together in a truly spiritual ecumenism. Today, the Catholic Charismatic Renewal enjoys the strong support of the hierarchy, from the Pope to bishops of dioceses around the world, as an officially recognized ecclesial movement.[10]

Two popes have acknowledged the movement: Pope Paul VI and Pope John Paul II. Pope John Paul II stated that the movement was integral to the renewal of the entire Catholic Church. Pope John Paul II (as well as then Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI) acknowledged good aspects of the movement while urging caution, pointing out members must maintain their link to the Catholic Church.[11]

Pope John Paul II, in particular, made a number of statements on the movement. On November 30, 1990, The Pontifical Council for the Laity promulgated the decree which inaugurated the Catholic Fraternity of Covenant Communities and Fellowships. Brian Smith of Brisbane, elected President of the Executive of the Fraternity, called the declaration the most significant event in the history of the charismatic renewal since the 1975 Holy Year international conference and the acknowledgment it received from Pope Paul VI at that time, saying 'It is the first time that the Renewal has had formal, canonical recognition by the Vatican.' [12]

In March 1992, Pope John Paul II stated

At this moment in the Church's history, the Charismatic Renewal can play a significant role in promoting the much-needed defense of Christian life in societies where secularism and materialism have weakened many people's ability to respond to the Spirit and to discern God's loving call. Your contribution to the re-evangelization of society will be made in the first place by personal witness to the indwelling Spirit and by showing forth His presence through works of holiness and solidarity.[13]

.

Moreover, during Pentecost 1998, the Pope recognized the essential nature of the charismatic dimension:

"The institutional and charismatic aspects are co-essential as it were to the Church’s constitution. They contribute, although differently, to the life, renewal and sanctification of God’s People. It is from this providential rediscovery of the Church’s charismatic dimension that, before and after the Council, a remarkable pattern of growth has been established for ecclesial movements and new communities."[14]

The Papal Preacher, Rev. Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa, has written on the topic numerous times since 1986.[15]


6,177 posted on 08/03/2010 7:03:28 PM PDT by Quix (THE PLAN of the Bosses: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2519352/posts?page=2#2)
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To: metmom

Thanks again for reminding me how great the scourge of modern ignorance is.

That you have never seen “raw flesh with blood on it” taken into anyone’s mouth at Communion is entirely consistent with the doctrine of transubstantiation, a doctrine which seems greatly misunderstood, to judge by some posts here.


6,178 posted on 08/03/2010 7:07:14 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee. here)
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To: Quix; MarkBsnr

See post #6176 and realize that you have no idea what the Catholic Church teaches


6,179 posted on 08/03/2010 7:08:09 PM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: stfassisi
Well said,Mark

Appreciate it, but, as they say, the jokes write themselves. These folks still measure themselves upon how Catholic that they are not. So it becomes not only an alliance, but also a competition.

When the strictures of the Church are slipped by the individual and they are only ruled by their imaginations, each renegade milkmaid simply thinks up more and more fantastic theologies. Look at the progression from the Reformation (pride and greed), to the Restoration (religious novelty), to Evangelicism (individualism), to Pentecostalism (individual mysticism), to the modern non denominational frenzy (daily inventions of doctrines).

We have the conservative and orthodox Anglican and Lutherans that are returning to the Church after seeing the horrors of their more liberal brethren. And we have the ever accelerating lunacies of the most liberal of Protestants and witnessing their increasingly spectacular and public disintegration. Imagine the African Episcopal Church demanding the removal of the English Anglicans because they are not orthodox enough. 50 years ago this would have been unheard of.

6,180 posted on 08/03/2010 7:10:13 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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