Posted on 07/18/2010 6:04:05 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
If YOU'RE wrong, you get to say "I'm sorry I didn't believe you, Lord."
I'd rather be in my shoes than those.
Quix....your little chuckling friend always cracks me up laughing. The first time I saw you use it in a hearty debate I laughed so hard I thought I’d cry! It broke up the tensions and it was needed at the time. He still cracks me up when I see him. Cute.
Non denominational for sure.
St. Paul, Gospel of John, the Apostles, Luther, a couple of millennia of Christian teaching and practice - removing the Real Presence from the Holy Eucharist takes some really heavy lifting.
First, Jesus didn't say "this is like my body", He said "this IS My body". You don't like it, take it up with Him. Secondly, the bread does not become the body of Christ through the actions of "somebody".
“I suspect you’d be too embarrassed to post those scriptures because they would fall flat on their faces...”
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Exodus 25:11-21 - the ark of the Old Covenant was made of the purest gold for God’s Word. Mary is the ark of the New Covenant and is the purest vessel for the Word of God made flesh.
2 Sam. 6:7 - the Ark is so holy and pure that when Uzzah touched it, the Lord slew him. This shows us that the Ark is undefiled. Mary the Ark of the New Covenant is even more immaculate and undefiled, spared by God from original sin so that she could bear His eternal Word in her womb.
1 Chron. 13:9-10 - this is another account of Uzzah and the Ark. For God to dwell within Mary the Ark, Mary had to be conceived without sin. For Protestants to argue otherwise would be to say that God would let the finger of Satan touch His Son made flesh. This is incomprehensible.
1 Chron. 15 and 16 - these verses show the awesome reverence the Jews had for the Ark - veneration, vestments, songs, harps, lyres, cymbals, trumpets.
Luke 1:39 / 2 Sam. 6:2 - Luke’s conspicuous comparison’s between Mary and the Ark described by Samuel underscores the reality of Mary as the undefiled and immaculate Ark of the New Covenant. In these verses, Mary (the Ark) arose and went / David arose and went to the Ark. There is a clear parallel between the Ark of the Old and the Ark of the New Covenant.
Luke 1:41 / 2 Sam. 6:16 - John the Baptist / King David leap for joy before Mary / Ark. So should we leap for joy before Mary the immaculate Ark of the Word made flesh.
Luke 1:43 / 2 Sam. 6:9 - How can the Mother / Ark of the Lord come to me? It is a holy privilege. Our Mother wants to come to us and lead us to Jesus.
Luke 1:56 / 2 Sam. 6:11 and 1 Chron. 13:14 - Mary / the Ark remained in the house for about three months.
Rev 11:19 - at this point in history, the Ark of the Old Covenant was not seen for six centuries (see 2 Macc. 2:7), and now it is finally seen in heaven. The Jewish people would have been absolutely amazed at this. However, John immediately passes over this fact and describes the “woman” clothed with the sun in Rev. 12:1. John is emphasizing that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant and who, like the Old ark, is now worthy of veneration and praise. Also remember that Rev. 11:19 and Rev. 12:1 are tied together because there was no chapter and verse at the time these texts were written.
Rev 12:1 - the “woman” that John is describing is Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. Just as the moon reflects the light of the sun, so Mary, with the moon under her feet, reflects the glory of the Sun of Justice, Jesus Christ.
Rev. 12:17 - this verse tells us that Mary’s offspring are those who keep God’s commandments and bear testimony to Jesus. This demonstrates, as Catholics have always believed, that Mary is the Mother of all Christians.
Rev. 12:2 - Some Protestants argue that, because the woman had birth pangs, she was a woman with sin. However, Revelation is apocalyptic literature unique to the 1st century. It contains varied symbolism and multiple meanings of the woman (Mary, the Church and Israel). The birth pangs describe both the birth of the Church and Mary’s offspring being formed in Christ. Mary had no birth pangs in delivering her only Son Jesus.
Isaiah 66:7 - for example, we see Isaiah prophesying that before she (Mary) was in labor she gave birth; before her pain came upon her she was delivered of a son (Jesus). This is a Marian prophecy of the virgin birth of Jesus Christ.
Gal 4:19 - Paul also describes his pain as birth pangs in forming the disciples in Christ. Birth pangs describe formation in Christ.
Rom. 8:22 - also, Paul says the whole creation has been groaning in travail before the coming of Christ. We are all undergoing birth pangs because we are being reborn into Jesus Christ.
Jer. 13:21 - Jeremiah describes the birth pangs of Israel, like a woman in travail. Birth pangs are usually used metaphorically in the Scriptures.
Hos. 13:12-13 - Ephraim is also described as travailing in childbirth for his sins. Again, birth pangs are used metaphorically.
Micah 4:9-10 - Micah also describes Jerusalem as being seized by birth pangs like a woman in travail.
Rev. 12:13-16 - in these verses, we see that the devil still seeks to destroy the woman even after the Savior is born. This proves Mary is a danger to satan, even after the birth of Christ. This is because God has given her the power to intercede for us, and we should invoke her assistance in our spiritual lives.
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/blessed_virgin_mary.html#the_bvm-II
Either that or the dreaded Aliens Is Us Without Pants.
Hmmm. I thought that kicking object was plural...or do we have a sly and semi-nasty spitwad?
I agree that Mary was very blessed, full of Grace. It’s speculation as to her thoughts, I can’t see any reason to say she didn’t feel towards God as you say.
I would think she might have been a bit more considering than you think, however. She was betrothed but unwed. Becoming pregnant would cause more than a little problem for her. Remember, Angels explained it to her and Joseph, but not to their neighbors and village.
How can we be “devaluing Christ and elevating Mary” in our parish churches when He is really and truly present there in the Most Holy Sacrament, and there are only plaster or wood statues of Mary present?
He is REALLY there, in the tabernacle.
But of course you don’t believe that, I’m sure.
(....waiting for the incoming rhetorical blast of “Blasphemy” in large capital letters and exclamation points. Or perhaps the snickering dog once again, for the umpteenth time.)
My head! My HEAD!
I am SO not dealing with this turn in the conversation -—
-— except to say that I did suggest a certain line from Acts as the battle cry for my college soccer team.
Often when you look more closely at theologies that have a problem with the Church’s teaching on Mary, you find more than a bit of Nestorius.
THX.
I think MUTLEY has the only fitting response to a SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF POSTS from the rabid clique types.
THen you explain why you can't find one:
All the rationalizing and weasel words will not explain it away. It’s brazenly plain.
You can't find one because you're not looking for one. Before you set out you've already decided you can't find an answer that will suit you.
Beautiful bkaycee, your references are refreshing. Pretty much clears the air. But then Gods word does indeed bring just that amid the confusions or uncertainites of study and reason.
I have found over the years that though other great works out there might enlarge our understanding of scripture....there is most definately a clear and precise connection we have with God as we study or read His written word which does not come reading any other literature.
INDEED.
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