Posted on 06/15/2010 6:38:10 AM PDT by bkaycee
Well of course it has to be since Scripture condemns your religion...
That's what these debates are about; the twisting and wresting of the Scriptures to try to get them to line up with your tradition to somehow make your religion the one that Jesus speaks of in the Scriptures...
Mary is not mentioned in Rev. 12...
That's why I generally don't approach things that way.
I appreciate the response. From my perspective as a Born Again Christian it's another example of why the RCC is stuck on the wrong side of the Cross.
Correct. To top it all off, the Author (webster) must not have read much Blessed Saint Cyril,because he was NOT a solo scripturalist private interpretation believer who taught outside what the Church believed Scripture to say.Example
"But in learning the Faith and in professing it, acquire and keep that only, which is now delivered to thee by the Church"-Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, 5:12 (A.D. 350).
Talk about a quotation OUT OF CONTEXT. I have seen it MANY times where Romanists will use only half a quote or quote out of context the fathers, to make it seem that the father will support the Roman view.
Here AGAIN is a wonderful example of either shoddy research or more likely to purposefully mislead.
When the entire quote from Cyril is read, the REAL meaning of what he meant is CLEAR.
I have placed in bold the half quote pasted by stfassisi and the remainder of the entire quote is underlined. See if the ENTIRE Quote supports the Roman view.
"But in learning the Faith and in professing it, acquire and keep that only, which is now delivered to thee by the Church, and which has been built up strongly out of all the Scriptures....We comprise the whole doctrine of the Faith in a few lines....For the articles of the Faith were not composed as seemed good to men; but the most important points collected out of all the Scripture make up one complete teaching of the Faith. And just as the mustard seed in one small grain contains many branches, so also this Faith has embraced in few words all the knowledge of godliness in the Old and New Testaments."
After we see the enire quote from Cyril, we can see that he is opposed to the Roman view and is much more onboard with Sola Scriptura.
Because he believed the Scriptures to be divinely inspired writings, Cyril taught that they are the ultimate authority for the Church and the sole source of doctrine and truth. Throughout his Lectures, Cyril defends each point of the Creed with Scripture, emphasizing repeatedly the necessity for every doctrine to be validated and proven from Scripture. He is emphatic that not the least point of doctrine is to be delivered without proof from the Scriptures:
"Have thou ever in thy mind this seal, which for the present has been lightly touched in my discourse, by way of summary, but shall be stated, should the Lord permit, to the best of my power with the proof from the Scriptures. For concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the Faith, not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures; nor must we be drawn aside by mere plausibility and artifices of speech. Even to me, who tell thee these things, give not absolute credence, unless thou receive the proof of the things which I announce from the Divine Scriptures. For this salvation which we believe depends not on ingenious reasoning, but on demonstration of the Holy Scriptures."
Really?
By the way, could you define exactly what you mean when you use that particular idiom "stuck on the wrong side of the Cross?"
I want to make sure I'm understanding your statement.
Still we should not forget that men like Calvin,Melancthon, and many other Protestants right up to recent times were.
You church made this claim about the belief that Scripture is the final authority, but not all Christian churches. Thankfully, God in His mercy kept a remnant that believed Scripture is inerrant and the final authority even during the dark ages.
NOPE.
The Vatican magicsterical bureaucratic power-mongering elite didn’t exist nor really achieve their pseudo-monopoly on so many through the Vatican mind-meld scheme until just after that.
Webster is just another charlton lining his pockets with money and tickling ears teaching against historical Christianity by twisting what the ECF's said in his own self interpretation that is not consistent to the ECF's writings as a whole
That statement is fairly close to libel, if not in fact libel.
His writings on the ECF's are very well researched, unfortunately, you just do not like the findings.
You could in no way back up your false claims as any investigation could easily prove.
They didn’t go because there a war going on.
Luther was invited, and chose not to come. I don’t see how you can blame the Church for this.
You seem to believe that the Church tried to execute him, not the case. They kept sending envoys in the hopes that he would recant his accusations.
Luther, unlike his anabaptist brethren died of a stroke at 62, in his bed, not on the cross. Were that he adjudged the mercy to others granted by the Church to him.
“They didn’t go because there a war going on.”
Luther was given protection to travel to the Vatican.
Which is how the Baptists explain the lack of evidence of their existence before the 17th Century. besides, no one every denied that Scripture is the Final authority, just as no one denies that the Constitution is the final authority in our political system. The debate is over who—which human beings- get to say what the final authority means when there is a dispute. Luther was convinced that the clear meaning of Scripture would always prevail. Then he met Zwingli who saw the words differently.
Saint Cyril is clear when HE obeys Church teaching on ALL the Sacraments including Eucharist -this MEANS Blessed CYRIL was NOT even close to being anything other than CATHOLIC AT ALL.
Do I need to flood you with his writings on this
Baptists split from the Anabaptists in America during the time of the revolution. They wanted to fight Britain to secure their freedom, while the Mennonites retained their pacifism.
It think it was to Trent. Can’t blame him for not trusting them to let him return from Rome.
Well, you didn't seem to manage to put in the whole quote. You put an ellipsis in there that took out essential components (something that Sola Scriptura proponents tend to do with the Scriptures, as well).
The entire paragraph 12 of lecture 5 reads as follows:
12. But in learning the Faith and in professing it, acquire and keep that only, which is now delivered to you by the Church, and which has been built up strongly out of all the Scriptures. For since all cannot read the Scriptures, some being hindered as to the knowledge of them by want of learning, and others by a want of leisure, in order that the soul may not perish from ignorance, we comprise the whole doctrine of the Faith in a few lines. This summary I wish you both to commit to memory when I recite it , and to rehearse it with all diligence among yourselves, not writing it out on paper , but engraving it by the memory upon your heart , taking care while you rehearse it that no Catechumen chance to overhear the things which have been delivered to you. I wish you also to keep this as a provision through the whole course of your life, and beside this to receive no other, neither if we ourselves should change and contradict our present teaching, nor if an adverse angel, transformed into an angel of light should wish to lead you astray. For though we or an angel from heaven preach to you any other gospel than that you have received, let him be to you anathema. So for the present listen while I simply say the Creed , and commit it to memory; but at the proper season expect the confirmation out of Holy Scripture of each part of the contents. For the articles of the Faith were not composed as seemed good to men; but the most important points collected out of all the Scripture make up one complete teaching of the Faith. And just as the mustard seed in one small grain contains many branches, so also this Faith has embraced in few words all the knowledge of godliness in the Old and New Testaments. Take heed then, brethren, and hold fast the traditions which you now receive, and write them on the table of your heart.
I put in bold black the original part that stfassisi quoted, then in red the additional part you (bkaycee) took. I have quoted the entire paragraph. Therefore, there should not be an issue of context.
Allow me to quote with some minor revisions:
Talk about a quotation OUT OF CONTEXT. I have seen it MANY times whereRomanistsProtestants will use only half a quote or quote out of context the fathers, to make it seem that the father (or Sacred Scripture) will support theRomanProtestant view.
Oh, and by the way, looking at the entirety of paragraph 12, I'd say it lines up PERFECTLY with Catholic doctrine.
The LWF president, Bishop Mark Hanson, was asked at a press conference on October 27 why it had taken so long for Lutherans to seek forgiveness. He said it was difficult to answer for ancestors, but that for him the process had begun 25 years ago, "when we began to examine Luther's anti-Semitic writings."
From the same outfit that laid a wreath at the grave of that true Christian and Jew lover....Yasir Arafat.
I believe the RCC has attempted to take on the Judaic theological system. This church's systematic theology looks to never ending ritual and works in order to be saved in much the same way that the Jews had to continuously make sacrifices and believed their salvation rested on their good works. Also, in the same manner as the Judaic model the RCC has elevated their clergy and given the top officials in that clergy the power of interpretation and authority just we saw in the Temple and the clergy in it. This is what existed on the front side of the Cross.
After the Cross was empty Christians were given the revelation through Paul of the new covenant, The Gospel. To the Apostles everlasting credit they agreed.
The Gospel is not the beatitudes as so many RC's like to argue. The Gospel is simple, it is by believing in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ you are saved. It is something I truly hope all RC's come to believe.
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