Posted on 05/14/2010 11:03:45 AM PDT by NYer
Men, being inside the reality they are observing, cannot be truly objective.
In order to be truly objective, you have to know truth as it is, not as you perceive it to be, or want it to be.
Your senses only tell you so much, therefore you cannot be truly objective because you are not omniscient.
I must apologize for ‘shooting from the lip’. I inadvertently replied to the wrong post. I thought I was replying to a post by the one who started this thread, and who has not answered my questions about how he can call the Roman institution ‘the Church’ with the ‘right’ to interpret scripture for everyone. See my post quoted below.....
Whoa.. so your a Bible scholar! Any real Christian understands that the Old Testament Jews were ‘God’s people’ and therefore His ‘ekklasia’. Actually the Old Testament even refers to ‘the Church in the Wilderness’ (proof text on demand)
You are (may I say ‘typically’ for Roman apologists) dancing all around to answer the question I have now clearly put to you in two posts. Please put up or... stop posting your longwinded, intellectual, defenses of the indefensible. Please, answer my question... Still betting you can’t.
Go back, read my posts on this thread and come back with a verse where Jesus Christ comes out and says, “I am God.”
Understand that I am not disagreeing with anything you say. What I am saying is that heretical cults have been using the absence of an definitive statement for centuries to deny that He is God.
Well, I find that interesting, you catholic defenders always do the same, ‘The church doesn’t teach that’ yet 90% of the catholic church will give that same answer, I know, I ask, so whatever, I’m sure if you stand that with your little quote there God will just say, awe shucks, come on in even though you never trusted in my death on the cross. I’m done with you, I know the truth, what I said is true, catholics almost universally give that answer. Bye.
Neither does omniscience imply or necessitate objectivity.
God is not an objective observer of the conflict between good and evil, nor the conflict between Israel and the nations that surround her.
My points stand unassailed. Once one pridefully ascribes to themselves the power of inerrant Biblical interpretation, then they cannot be moved by reason, or observed reality.
Thus we have our Creationist FReepers who insist that the Sun circles the Earth.
Intellectual suicide.
This was meant for you, accidentally posted to another ‘poster’. Are you going to answer the questions about the ‘original church’; or are you going to apologize for insinuating that God’s people, lacking the Education of Thomas Aquinas, can’t read and understand God’s Word?
Sheesh. Leave it to the Protestant to bail out the Catholics...
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
-- Revelation 1:8"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
"Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."
-- Revelation 22:12-16
You’ve been given verses.
John 8:58 “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
*I am* is the name for God.
No, heretical cults like the Mormons use extra-Biblical writings to justify that blasphemy, not lack of Scriptural evidence.
Those verses do show that Jesus made that claim. It may not have been in the words that you would have liked Him to use, but He stated it clearly enough more than once.
No, you're not done with me yet.
I run into a lot of ex-catholics. They are determined and they are right and nobody, but nobody is going to tell them otherwise. You know who else had that attitude? Eve.
Yup, you probably went to a nice Catholic elementary school and nice Catholic high school. Took religion classes from K-12 and you know Catholic doctrine better than the Pope himself.
I know the type. Very well.
But you know the difference between you and me?
You say: I’m sure if you stand that with your little quote there God will just say, awe shucks, come on in even though you never trusted in my death on the cross. I’m done with you...
...essentially condemning me to hell.
I, on the other hand, will say: "I don't know the state of your soul. So I will just trust in God's mercy."
Have a nice life. You, too, will be in my prayers this evening.
Some heretical cults take the statement, “Let there be light,” and Christ’s statement, “I am the Light of the world,” to mean that God created Christ.
I am not disagreeing with ANY of the verses that you or others have posted. I fully agree that He said very clearly that He is God.
My point, which nobody seems to want to address is that the lack of the simple statement, “I am God,” has caused heretics to state that He is only the Son of God. I think that we can all agree that this has happened and that we disagree with it. WHEN this happens, we REJECT the heretic’s interpretation of Scripture BECAUSE it is in conflict with basic Christian dogma.
Well, of course there isn't. If "Bible only" were true, there would be no need for the Holy Spirit. And yet God sent the Holy Spirit.
Now you are jumping to conclusions. Where have I implied that I would have liked Him to be more clear?
My position from the beginning has been that the lack of a specific phrase has been used by heretical cults to deny the Divinity of Christ. This is not my opinion, or Catholic opinion or Protestant opinion, or anything else, this is a matter of historical fact and there are cults that still say this today.
Scythian is correct. I was raised Catholic, have priests and nuns in my family, and that is the exact same experience I've had.
The Catholic church teaches it and misinterprets Scripture to justify it.
Protestant interpretation...
Matthew 3:1 In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the Desert of Judea 2and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near."
Catholic Bible (Douay-Rheims) with footnote.
1 And in those days cometh John the Baptist preaching in the desert of Judea. 2 And saying: Do penance: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matthew 3:8 8Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.
Matthew 3:8 (D-R Bible) 8 Bring forth therefore fruit worthy of penance.
http://biblos.com/matthew/3-2.htm
The Greek word in both those verses which the Catholic Bible translates as *penance* is *repent*: μετανοεῖτε metanoeite 3340 V-PAM-2P "repent you"
And this is only one example. Penance is basing your salvation on works. There is no need for penance. The punishment for our sin was taken by Christ on the cross. There is no need for any more.
Perhaps you ought to inform UriÂ’el-2012 of that as well......
Doesn't the Roman Catholic Church teach that Mary is the Second Eve?
It's paralleling the Biblical Second Adam being Jesus Christ, so I understand the inference. You'll find no Biblical source of Mary as Second Eve, though.
Eve was corrupted and went against God. She convinced man to listen to her instead of God.
The Second Adam is God.
So some, in their intellectual pride, consider themselves objective and interpret Scripture to fit their worldview.
So some, in their intellectual pride, consider themselves objective and interpret Scripture to fit their worldview.
You are displaying, as usual, the very kind of pride you are condemning.
I NEVER heard that one before. Which cult is that?
You are (may I say ‘typically’ for Roman apologists) dancing all around to answer the question I have now clearly put to you in two posts. Please put up or... stop posting your longwinded, intellectual, defenses of the indefensible. Please, answer my question... Still betting you can’t.
Are you sure this was addressed to me ?
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
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