Posted on 05/09/2010 8:03:40 AM PDT by truthfinder9
“Science tells us the earth is ~4.5 x 10^9 years old. The universe is ~14 x 10^9 years old.”
How about “the earth appears to be...”
The precision of nature argues, incontrovertably, that it was engineered and designed.
Are you suggesting we can't know what God means using the logic he gave us? Do you grasp the intent of what I wrote? I'm really not sure if we are discussing the same subject?
Right. If the Jewish Temple crumbled could God build it back up in three days? Does the statement Jesus made not hold TRUE for both Temples? The reason I'm pointing this out is because those gathered around mockingly (I envision) questioned the statement because they though he was in fact talking about the Jewish temple. What's ironic about this is because he was God of course, he could have raised it back up in three days even if he was talking about the Jewish temple.
I feel like I'm the only one in this world that's sees the true irony of this verse...
JOHN 2 -
13The Jewish Passover was near, so Jesus went to Jerusalem.
14He found those who were selling cattle, sheep, and pigeons in the temple courtyard. He also found moneychangers sitting there.
15He made a whip from small ropes and threw everyone with their sheep and cattle out of the temple courtyard. He dumped the moneychangers' coins and knocked over their tables.
16He told those who sold pigeons, "Pick up this stuff, and get it out of here! Stop making my Father's house a marketplace!"
17His disciples remembered that Scripture said, "Devotion for your house will consume me."
18The Jews reacted by asking Jesus, "What miracle can you show us to justify what you're doing?"
19Jesus replied, "Tear down this temple, and I'll rebuild it in three days."
20The Jews said, "It took forty-six years to build this temple. Do you really think you're going to rebuild it in three days?"
21But the temple Jesus spoke about was his own body.
22After he came back to life, his disciples remembered that he had said this. So they believed the Scripture and this statement that Jesus had made.
So what guesstimate would you have from Adam to Noah, in our current 365+ day years?
And precisely where, in your view, does the Bible start being literally believable?
Did a flood kill all but eight humans and “creatures” other than those on the ark? Genesis 7:21-23
Did the sun stand still in the sky? Joshua 10:12, 13
Was Jesus born of a virgin? Isaian 7:14
Was Jonah 3 days in a fish belly? Jonah 1:17
Yes, I am. I do not believe we are capable, as we are humans and He is God. Human logic or not.
I'm sorry, that's just ignorant. If you can't understand what God means how do we follow his precepts? How do you actually become Christian if you can't logically understand what belief in Christ entails?
I understand his ways are higher than ours, but in no way does it mean God does not use logic so we can understand. He invented it precisely so we could understand!
Wouldn't that also be the problem if evolution happened. Or is it now part of the theory that multiple organisms mutated over time into the same animal. So not only did Mankind come from random selection, but the same selection had to happen to multiple species at the exact same time, or the first pair would have been the "adam and eve" and had the same problem.
That’s not how it works. It’s an accumulation of mutations that lead to new features, over several individuals.
It’s not like two parents will produce a mutated offspring with a larger brain or so. It’s gradual favouring of mutations that lead to slightly higher intelligence (say), that accumulate through natural selection, over several generations, that lead to the changes.
I can’t or won’t understand it, but how could a one in a billion happening, happen more than once...and in such a manner as to have the two things be compatible?.....just a question that rolls around in my head. Like how could two neanderthals, or two cro-magnons, or two homo-sapiens exist at the same time? Only if the first life forms evolved simultaneously and mutated simultaneously....I don’t know, it takes more effort to believe in random selection, life starting from a chemical soup, than from a guiding force.
Mutations are more common than you think.
It is minute mutations that lead to better abilities, being favoured over time, that brings about the overall change, in a span of millions of years.
It’s not a “one-in-a-billion” happening as you imagine, but something far more frequent. That is how bacteria are able to overcome antibiotics that used to wipe all of them out, before. For more complex organisms, the mutations accumulate based on how they are favoured, during mating.
“Guiding force” is fine, but when it is explicitly detailed in terms of flashes, magic and smoke, it gets too absurd to even consider as possible reality.
Right, of course he could have, and had they destroyed the temple, I’m sure it would have been completely rebuilt three days later, to the amazement of any to witness it.
bflr
Another reason it’s interesting is because the use of “words” are so important. When God is communicating with us I’m sure there are realms of truth yet undiscovered in everything he’s said.
I think that is part of us that is created by Him, on an individual basis.
I think our human logic allows us to have these conversations, not to understand what God is all about.
You posted:
That’s not how it works. It’s an accumulation of mutations that lead to new features, over several individuals.
So what we have through “evolution” is:
1. Life from non-life.
2. Spontaneous generation of irreducibly complex systems.
3. Sight from non-sight.
4. Flight from non-flight.
5. Intelligence from non-intelligence.
6. Aesthetic appreciation from previously non-aesthetic beings.
And all through “time, plus chance, plus the impersonal” (Francis Schaeffer).
Anyone who believes that has faith in “random,” or is a total hypocrite in what they assert, believing none of it. I would rather have faith in God, even though He transcends my intelligence. At least He doesn’t insult it.
That makes no sense!! If you can not use logic to ascertain what God has decreed, how do you know whether or not your adhering to his precepts properly? How would you actually repent or believe in Jesus? Now, most certainly there are things we definitely do not have the mindset to "understand" about God, and even things I'm sure he hides from us, but to suggest human logic does not allow us to comprehend his way is highly obtuse.
How is this a problem unique to Creationism? There's going to be an original breeding pair regardless.
Self-evidence, besides, how do you know your logical conclusion is correct? Not everyone is a Christian.
You mean, at a time when species evolved to develop sexual reproduction, in the case of the evolutionary model?
If yes, it still is not as susceptible to genetic damage as the Adam and Eve model, because sexual reproduction originated in much simpler organisms. In addition to that, a pool of genetic material was already present, for the species to recover from the damaging effects of mutations.
With a species as complex as humans, this route simply isn't possible, if there is only one pair, to begin with.
Genetic bottlenecks are touted as the means by which accelerated evolution has occurred in any number of species.
Evolution relies upon severe inbreeding, not just once but many times. It’s not a point of differentiation with Creationism at all.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.