Posted on 03/15/2010 12:07:15 PM PDT by Colofornian
Edited on 03/23/2010 6:15:31 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
SZ, I seriously doubt if you qualify. From the ever expanded, always truthful, and omniscient wikipedia: According to LDS theology, there are two classes of persons who will become sons of perdition - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_perdition I really do hate cut and pasting, but here is the pertinent info from that link.
Son of Perdition is also a phrase used by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (sometimes referred to as Mormons) to describe a person who will not take part in the glory of God in the afterlife.
This is in contrast to the vast majority of people, who will receive a “kingdom of glory” after the Final Judgment, and enter into one of three degrees of glory or intelligence after the resurrection; Celestial, Terrestrial, or Telestial Kingdoms.
Most Latter-day Saints believe that the Sons of Perdition will be cast into outer darkness; the scriptures do not use this exact phrase in connection with the Sons of Perdition, but state that they “shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels.”[10]
Mormons believe that free will is one of the greatest gifts of God, and that there could be some who will completely reject Jesus Christ and salvation. God will not force someone, including Satan, to be saved if they do not desire to be saved. Therefore, Sons of Perdition are allowed to remove themselves from the presence of God and live in whatever degree of darkness they desire.
In an LDS context, the name Perdition refers to either Lucifer[11] or Cain[12] both of whom are symbols of ultimate evil.
According to LDS theology, there are two classes of persons who will become sons of perdition:
1. The pre-mortal spirit followers of Satan. It is taught that, in the pre-mortal life, they chose to follow a plan proposed by Satan, rather than that presented by God the Father and Jesus. Thus ensued the War in Heaven, which resulted in Satan and his followers being cast out of heaven and denied the opportunity of receiving a physical body.
2. Those in mortal life who “deny the Holy Ghost,” which is generally interpreted as rejecting and denying Christ after receiving a personal witness of him from the Holy Ghost. It is frequently—though not universally—added that a son of perdition must have a “perfect knowledge” of Jesus and that mere faith or belief in him is not enough. Joseph Smith, Jr. taught:
All sins shall be forgiven, except the sin against the Holy Ghost; for Jesus will save all except the sons of perdition. What must a man do to commit the unpardonable sin? He must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against him. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him. He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it.[13]
Hi SZonian,
Thanks for the ping on this. I have never said leaving the LDS Church means a person is doomed to outer darkness for eternity. I don’t believe that.
Best,
Normandy
I think urroner will simply suggest that neither you nor I had the “light” of a proper testimony.
And since we never had a “proper testimony,” then we will not be sons of Perdition.
But who knows what urroner thinks - he is very remiss in actually answering any question other than to say he will do it later. lol
urroner, In Mormonism, if you are "saved" into either the Telestial or Terrestrial Kingdom, you do not dwell with God. I have shown that to be true on two occasions on this very thread alone by posting directly from lds.org. I think you don't want to see it.
every reward or “crown” we receive based upon our good works will be thrown at our Saviors feet for His glory and not our own.
Revelation 4
I don’t think you truly grasp the idea of worship either here or in the hereafter.
CC, is there a difference between these two statements:
1. One who is saved can not dwell with God
2. One can be saved and still not dwell with God.
You stated the first as a Mormon belief. I have said that that is not true, that it’s the second.
Of course, this depends upon what the word “saved” means and the context it is used in.
It seems to me that you are demanding that I only use your definitions; that when I use the word X, that I mean what you mean when you say X. Okay, I’m willing to try to do that, but in order to do that, I have to know what you mean when you say X. Do you see a problem with this?
Let’s cut the bull and cut to the chase.
If you are “saved” to the Telestial Kingdom, do you dwell with God?
Let’s see if you can actually answer a question.
Show me where I said the following:
“1. One who is saved can not dwell with God”
Otherwise you are blowing smoke.
From the Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary on Revelation 4:
10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
10. fall-immediately. Greek, “shall fall down”: implying that this ascription of praise shall be repeated onward to eternity. So also, “shall worship . shall cast their crowns,” namely, in acknowledgment that all the merit of their crowns (not kingly diadems, but the crowns of conquerors) is due to Him
Okay, I show you once again where it is. It’s in you post, the 666th post of this thread and this is exactly what you said in that post. Please look at the start of the third paragraph:
“For a Christian, Salvation is Eternal life with God.”
“Go ahead, now that I answered what is exaltation?”
“Because with Mormon salvation, you do not dwell with God - Therefore Mormon salvation is not equal with Christian Salvation. In the telestial Kingdom, the terrestrial Kingdom - no dwelling with God - only in the Celestial Kingdom through Exaltation which a Mormon must earn through works, does one have free exchanges with God, by becoming a god.”
“And no more of your snide, “if you were Mormon,” crap. I was Mormon. I can post my entire genealogy if you wish....Mormons now and going back to the mid 1800’s every.single.one! - I once had it on my homepage. At least be man enough to grant me my history.”
So, I am not blowing smoke or even thinking about blowing smoke.
So do you earn rewards for your glory or for HIS?
(Be careful, because your eternity hinges upon the answer.)
Who is glorified by your good works?
Answer my question.
If you are “saved” to the Telestial Kingdom, do you dwell with God?
No????
In Mormonism, only in the state of Exaltation and not salvation do you dwell with God. Therefor if A = Dwelling with God, then in Christianity A = Salvation. In Mormonism A = Exaltation and not Salvation.
So Christianity Salvation means dwelling with God.
Mormonism Exaltation means dwelling with God. They are closer in definition.
Ah, see there, I did NOT use the word “cannot” as you said I did. But used the words “do not.” Wasn’t it you that made the clarification between the use of those phrases.
I guess you were wrong again.
That’s an easy answer, by doing good works, I bring glory to God.
CC, you made a blanket statement about Mormons’ belief in salvation.
“Because with Mormon salvation, you do not dwell with God”
That is wrong. I keep telling you that and you just keep ignoring what I am saying. I have told you that in Mormonism, there are two different types of salvation, physical and spiritual. With physical salvation, one can physically be saved and still not live with God.
I think what you meant to say was “Because with Mormon salvation, you can be saved and still not dwell with God.”
Am I incorrect here?
CC, I admit that they are closer in definition, but they are not the same. Even within the Celestial Kingdom, all will dwell with God, as your term “salvation” means, but not all in the CK will be exalted.
Whatever......
Your parsing is Clintonesque.
So what do YOU earn by doing works?
How about ordinances?
No CC, it’s not Clintonesque. I, in no way, said “It depends up what the word “is” is. In the language I speak, there is a huge difference between “do not” and “might not be able to.”
I just guess that we will have to agree to disagree if there is a difference or not.
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