Good Catholics should not wear aprons

The Catholic Herald ^ | 30 October 2009 | Fr Ashley Beck

[nickcarraway]

I have traveled the world and have seen people laying hungry on the steps of a church full of gold statues.

I've been a Catholic all my life, and been all over the world. I have never once seen a Church with gold statues in it. I have never seen a picture of a Catholic Church with gold statues in it. Can you please name a few examples of Catholic churches with gold statues? You've made an accusation, back it up.

[ErnstStavroBlofeld]

I agree. I am allowed to attend several Catholic churches and the priests know I am a Mason. In fact, I have great friendships with them.

[nickcarraway]

Does this mean I’m not married or that my two sons were not baptized? Are you sure you are Catholic? You don't seem to know much about Catholicism. If the priest who married you received Holy Orders, then he is still a priest, no matter what he does now, as Holy Orders last forever, even of the priest is laicized.

Besides that, in the Roman Rite, even a lay person could perform a wedding (Canon 1112.2) because the bride and groom confer marriage on each other. (In the Eastern Rite the priest is the minister of the sacrament)

So, no one would tell you and your wife they are not married.

Anyone, even an atheist, can perform a baptism, as long as the formula is correct.

[nickcarraway]

If you really are Catholic, then the Masons are effecting you more than you think, because they are telling you stuff about the Catholic Church that is completely false. How come you implicitly trust all the bad things said about the Catholic Church by Masons, but you distrust everything the Catholic Church teaches?

[D-fendr]

Is this familiar to you:

“The All-Seeing Eye, whom the Sun, Moon, and Stars obey, and under whose watchful care even comets perform their stupendous revolutions, pervades the inmost recesses of the human heart, and will reward us according to our merits.”

[melsec]

It is enough that Jesus said do not swear oaths.

Mel

[Redleg Duke]

"Freemasonry is a naturalistic religion."

At this point, I realized this gentleman hasn't a clue.

As a Mason for the past 37 years, I have always been encouraged to be active in my own religion. It is about power and control...Roman Catholic...Wisconsin Synod Lutheran...whatever...it is about the church "owning you" body and soul.

My soul belongs to God Almighty, who gave it to me at the moment of conception! "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!"

And I will do so, wearing an apron if I wish, but still beholding to God!

[elcid1970]

OK, I stand corrected. In this Masonic ceremony with everyone in full regalia, the temple was either in Baltimore or Alexandria, on the table was a Talmud, a Bible, AND a Koran, no doubt about the latter.

I’m not sure that Freemasonry is incompatible with Christianity, but it is pre-Christian, no doubt. I still believe there is an element of salvation-by-degrees assocoated with Masonic belief. In any case, it’s about much more than a night out with the boys as some allege. I have to give the benefit of the doubt to an organization that had Washington and Jefferson as members.

But I would like to know just what’s the story with the fez, and Potentates, and the crescent on the fezes, you know. Twice a year we have a huge gun show at the Jamil Temple, and from the entrance to the main hall you walk past case after glass case full of Past Potentate fezes.

Just curious about all the Islamic symbolism.

[Redleg Duke]

"Neo-pagan masonic gear is not."

Funny, in 37 years as a Mason, I have never seen or worn any of that.

[Redleg Duke]

"Joseph Smith was a Mason."

Joseph Smith was a defrocked Mason...he was defrocked for attempting to make the Fraternity into a Religion!

[Redleg Duke]

Mexico, is where I also saw grinding poverty one the steps of a cathedral with gold, silver and precious stones abounding inside!

I believe what the writer was implying was that the immense wealth of the Roman Catholic Church stands in juxtaposition to the poverty outside of its own doors...impoverished souls who are constantly exhorted to give for their eternal salvation.

You, however, are using the word "statues" to deflect the facts, just as you will ignore my words as well.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see and none so deaf as those who will not hear!"

[Redleg Duke]

"Anyone, even an atheist, can perform a baptism, as long as the formula is correct."

Yeah? Well one thing an atheist is not allowed to do is become a Mason!

Put that into your Roman Catholic Supremacy Equation, my friend.

[K-oneTexas]

Freemasons, of which I am one, through the years all I know is that they believe in a Supreme Being. That you (the initiate/brother) believe in a Supreme Being is 'pre-requisite' for membership. As another said the fraternity (Masonic order - Blue Lodge, Scottish Rite or Shrine) have NO TEACHINGS or beliefs regarding salvation. Historically, the Masons, I think come much closer to the Deists of history. Many of whom were the Founding Fathers of this country and Freemasons also. I have know many Brothers who were sitting in the pews of widely scattered churches across the city/town on Sunday (Protestant, Catholic, Baptists, Non-Denomination and so on). Personally, I was always told that the Catholic Church didn't approve because a Mason would keep secrets and not divulge them in confession. This from Catholic Brothers when I was young (DeMolay and initial years in Masonry, some 30-odd years ago). The suppression of the Masons is pretty much known now to be an act of greed by the French king for their wealth using the Catholic church as the weapon of his assault. In my 30-odd years in the Masons I have never met a Mason, and I have attended meeting all across the US and around the world, who disparaged any religion or church. It is also true that the symbols used in all Masonic Orders (Blue Lodge, Scottish Rite and Shrine) pull from symbols used in various religions around the world. They are symbolic of that degree (Masonic level) and not of the religion that might also use them. In my experience, they do not have the same meaning for the same reason. Instead of relying on John Smith, one might read Albert Pike's works on Masonry (available in book stores), though he too had his detractors after the Civil War. Masonic influences can be found in many things over the centuries: government, architecture and the Arts. Nothing nefarious as far as I've been able to find.

[oldtimer]

BTTT

I wish the Catholic Church would use it's energies to excommunicate the baby killers like Pelosi and Biden.

30% of the members of Congress are Catholics and most of them are for abortion.

It would also be great if the Catholic Church used some more energy in focusing on the greatest threat Christians face today which is Islam.

I won't belabor what went on in the Vatican during the 15 hundreds, and so on.

[Smelly_Fed]

It subsequently came to light that nearly all the male members of his Parochial Church Council....
I can't help but chuckle that you're already employing Masonic colloquialisms before you even reach the term "on the square"

Why is all this a problem? The reason is that the Catholic Church teaches that Freemasonry and Christianity are incompatible.
Of course the Catholic Church sees Freemasons as incompatible with Catholicism. Catholicism has it's own fraternity, started by jealous Catholics who saw their men donating their time and money somewhere else. There's an old expression that says "Always follow the money" - nowhere is that more true than with the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church alleges all sorts of ridiculous accusations against freemasonry simply because they view it as competition for income.

There are no dragons here. Freemasonry is not a religion and it doesn't provide a path for salvation. It takes good moral men, and teaches them valuable moral lessons to make them better moral men. There is no path to spiritual enlightenment - the craft encourages you to seek that in your own local church and repeatedly states that Masonry is not a substitute for the edification of the saints.

The oaths or obligations are allegorical only. They are not truly secretive - they are posted all over the net. It's the willingness of a man to be a man of his word. To keep the confidence of a friend - these are the kind of men that Masonry "builds" through its moral lessons.

Perhaps if the Catholic Church did a better job of teaching this lesson, the need for secular fraternities would lesson?

The reasons for our teaching, expounded in teaching from many popes since the 18th century, are theological.
Again, follow the money. "Theological" is a smokescreen for "we're losing money".

In the first place, Freemasonry is a naturalistic religion.
No, it isn't.

Its rituals and constitutions present the member as a man who is able to advance towards enlightenment through his own efforts
No, they dont.

The Mason can earn his salvation through rites of initiation and the activities of the lodge (including charitable giving)
No, he can't.

It is totally at odds with the Christian vision, in which we need God's grace, through the death and resurrection of Our Lord, to grow in holiness.
If any of what you had suggested above was actually true, you might have a point. But you are categorically wrong on every point so your conclusion is also vastly in error.

Second, the prayers in its rituals specifically exclude reference to Our Lord. They are often prayers of Christian origin which have been vandalised.
The prayers offered in a lot of public and private ceremonies also exclude reference to the Lord. When I played football, there were prayers offered before the game by a Coach or community member. Did that make every boy in the lockerroom a member in the Church of Friday Night Football because he bowed his head?

When the President of the US is sworn in to office, a generic prayer is offered. Does that destroy the credibility of every Christian on the mall who also bows his head in reverence?

In order to encompass adherents of other faiths the Saviour of the world is simply removed and set aside: he is not important. How can any Christian go along with this?
The same way we belong to Country Clubs, the Rotary, Trade Organizations and the Beer of the Month Club. None of them are substitutes for religion and were never intended to be.

Third, the oaths required in the initiation rites require the new Mason to promise to keep secret the organisation's rituals, even though he does not at that point know what they are.
How can you tell lies like this and expect us to take you seriously in relation to your faith? Ignorance is no excuse to just make stuff up. Newly obligated brothers know EXACTLY what they are obligating yourself to. They can withdraw at any point and at any stage in the degree work. They are given study work after each degree so they can better prepare themselves for the next.

These oaths are what Christian moral theologians call "vain" - they are not acceptable and cannot bind the person making them, even if they are done in the name of God. This is the problem with the oaths, not (as is sometimes claimed) the dire penalties which used to be referred to in the rituals.
It's an obligation, not an oath and it obligates masons only to an extent. It does not apply if conflicts with their faith, family or vocation.

It is important that Catholics rest their challenge to Freemasonry on the clear theological arguments
I agree, let me know when you have some clear theological arguments.

[blackie]

I was raised in 1985. I agree with you Redleg Duke, 100%.

There are more lies told about Masonry than any other fellowship!

Be Ever Vigilant!

[nickcarraway]

here are these churches? Mexico has had an anti-Catholic government since the start, and Catholicism was illegal some of the time. Anything valuable in a Catholic Church would have been confiscated by the government.

You, however, are using the word "statues" to deflect the facts, just as you will ignore my words as well.

Are you Dan Rather. He said something untrue, and you blame me for that! Fake but accurate.

[narses]

Smelly_Fed wrote:

The Catholic Church alleges all sorts of ridiculous accusations against freemasonry simply because they view it as competition for income.

Well plus the documented facts about FreeMasonry, read Pike's book for example. Then there are actual documents like this one -

DOCUMENTI RIGUARDANTI L'ALTA VENDITA

Pesky facts.

[Redleg Duke]

Well, I am going to believe "my lying eyes" as opposed to your words. I was there and I saw it.

Your gratuitous slap with Dan Rather points out your irrelevance. Ta-Ta, fella!

[nickcarraway]

You are right. Catholics are evil and the whole point of Catholicism is to torture the poor and accumulate wealth. Unlike the Masons who only care about making the world a better place. Is that better?