Witness the "all" of me

Bible and The Comforter | Scribe

[marbren]

This is what is so difficult debating with you guys. You first say that your mind is open to any possibility. In the very next sentence, you then describe a possibility that your mind is NOT open to.

So I take it if you see an alien shaking Obama’s hand at the white house and this alien says Jesus is one of them you would believe the alien.

[Quix]

No way.

I must be truthful about that and everything else.

Whether the rabid cliques have any stomach for the truth, or not.

[MarkBsnr]

***This is what is so difficult debating with you guys. You first say that your mind is open to any possibility. In the very next sentence, you then describe a possibility that your mind is NOT open to.

So I take it if you see an alien shaking Obama’s hand at the white house and this alien says Jesus is one of them you would believe the alien.***

Also this what is so difficult in debating with you guys. I quoted a situation in which you contradicted yourself in subsequent sentences. Now you are supposing things about me based upon a mixture of the idiocy of the two sentences put together.

If I saw an alien shaking Obama’s hand? I’d lay odds in Vegas that I was under the influence of a hallucinogen. I don’t have to unduly consider things that don’t exist and won’t happen. Get a grip on reality.

I suppose that you carry pepper spray in case supermodels try to kiss you.

[MarkBsnr]

***This is what is so difficult debating with you guys. You first say that your mind is open to any possibility. In the very next sentence, you then describe a possibility that your mind is NOT open to.

So I take it if you see an alien shaking Obama’s hand at the white house and this alien says Jesus is one of them you would believe the alien.***

Also this what is so difficult in debating with you guys. I quoted a situation in which you contradicted yourself in subsequent sentences. Now you are supposing things about me based upon a mixture of the idiocy of the two sentences put together.

If I saw an alien shaking Obama’s hand? I’d lay odds in Vegas that I was under the influence of a hallucinogen. I don’t have to unduly consider things that don’t exist and won’t happen. Get a grip on reality.

I suppose that you carry pepper spray in case supermodels try to kiss you.

[MarkBsnr]

***No way.***

Sad. Do you pay rent for the room and couch?

***I must be truthful about that and everything else.

Whether the rabid cliques have any stomach for the truth, or not.***

You MUST tell sometime about having to reconcile that between this statement and the rabid groups.

[Quix]

It’s difficult to imagine a way to make sense out of that post.

If you care to make it sensible and clear, I’ll consider responding.

[MarkBsnr]

***It’s difficult to imagine a way to make sense out of that post.

If you care to make it sensible and clear, I’ll consider responding.***

Certainly; I am surprised, though, that you would find this perplexing. However:

***Do you pay rent for the room and couch?***

This is an interrogative which is designed to find the answer as to whether you pay rent for the room and couch.

***I must be truthful about that and everything else.

Whether the rabid cliques have any stomach for the truth, or not.***

You MUST tell sometime about having to reconcile that between this statement and the rabid groups.***

Since you claim to be truthful and then you claim that the rabid cliques you belong to do not have stomach for truth, how can you reconcile those two statement?

I am very surprised that you did not understand the previous post - it was very plain.

[1010RD]

To Kosta50’s post 381 as well.

I need not mean to imply any nefarious behavior to Mr. Rogers’ interpretation of scripture or his selection of Bible translations to use.

The original post by Mr. Rogers was to refute Apostolic succession in regards to the Internet personality Jedediah (who I do not believe is anything but a troll). My reply post was in regards to the word “ordained” translated in the KJV v. the word “to become” translated in the ESV.

Fundamental to any decision on what to believe is by what authority information comes to us. Mr. Rogers and I reached out to our “authorities”. He to Barnes, me to Strong’s and the root words/definitions plus the indomitable Kosta50. Kosta50 reached out to Kolo for additional information.

So you have four professed Christians (right?) for whom authority is important, but subject to interpretation by us individually. We compare the data collected and match it to our preconceived notions to either reject or accept the data. A fairly subjective process, no?

If the Bible alone is an authority and we can ignore all other evidences how can we deny that Jedediah is a prophet? Is there no need for additional authority, outside the scriptures, in our age? It would seem from this discussion that at the very least some scholarly authority is needed, but it is accepted only in as much as it conforms to what we already believe.

[Kolokotronis]

Here's an authority for you: "Then after the event, he appositely brings in the Prophet, saying, “For it is written in the Book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein” (v. 20) (Ps. lxix. 25): this is said of the field and the dwelling: “And his bishopric let another take; that is, his office, his priesthood. So that this, he says, is not my counsel, but His who hath foretold these things. For, that he may not seem to be undertaking a great thing, and just such as Christ had done, he adduces the Prophet as a witness. “Wherefore it behooves of these men which have companied with us all the time.” (v. 21.) Why does he make it their business too? That the matter might not become an object of strife, and they might not fall into contention about it. For if the Apostles themselves once did this, much more might those. This he ever avoids. Wherefore at the beginning he said, “Men and brethren. It behooves” to choose from among you. He defers the decision to the whole body, thereby both making the elected objects of reverence and himself keeping clear of all invidiousness with regard to the rest. For such occasions always give rise to great evils. Now that some one must needs be appointed, he adduces the prophet as witness: but from among what persons: “Of these,” he says, “which have companied with us all the time.” To have said, the worthy must present themselves, would have been to insult the others; but now he refers the matter to length of time; for he says not simply, “These who have companied with us,” but, “all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from the baptism of John unto that same day that He was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of His resurrection” (v. 22): that their college (ὁ χορὸς) might not be left mutilated. Then why did it not rest with Peter to make the election himself: what was the motive? This; that he might not seem to bestow it of favor. And besides, he was not yet endowed with the spirit. “And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabus, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.” (v. 23.) Not he appointed them: but it was he that introduced the proposition to that effect, at the same time pointing out that even this was not his own, but from old time by prophecy; so that he acted as expositor, not as preceptor. “Joseph called Barsabus, who was surnamed Justus.” Perhaps both names are given, because there were others of the same name, for among the Apostles also there were several names alike; as James, and James (the son) of Alphæus; Simon Peter, and Simon Zelotes; Judas (the brother) of James, and Judas Iscariot. The appellation, however, may have arisen from a change of life, and very likely also of the moral character. “They appointed two,” it is said, “Joseph called Barsabus, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. And they prayed, and said; Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, show whether of these two thou hast chosen, that he may take part of this ministry and Apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.” (v. 24, 25.) They do well to mention the sin of Judas, thereby showing that it is a witness they ask to have; not increasing the number, but not suffering it to be diminished. “And they gave forth their lots” (for the spirit was not yet sent), “and the lot fell upon Matthias: and he was numbered with the eleven Apostles.” (v. 26.) +John Chrysostomos, Homily III on the Acts of the Apostles Note how this translation of +John Chrysostomos' Homily uses the word "ordained". I wish I had a copy handy in Greek.

[Jedediah]

Do you know who said “ and I believe I have the mind if Christ “ ?

This is for all who know Jesus , truly know Jesus and have a relationship with him and in this know his voice .

[kosta50]

The original post by Mr. Rogers was to refute Apostolic succession in regards to the Internet personality Jedediah (who I do not believe is anything but a troll). My reply post was in regards to the word “ordained” translated in the KJV v. the word “to become” translated in the ESV.

Look, the only reason Kolo and I got involved is because you asked me and I aksed kolo for an opinion regarding the Greek word ginomai. The short answer is, no it doesn't mean ordained per se, but in the context of St. Matthias' election it does.

[kosta50]

Fundamental to any decision on what to believe is by what authority information comes to us

Well, as regard what the Bible says, the authority is the language in which it was written. And the Greeks knew it the best back then and that's what the Church teaches to this day. As to whether the Bible has any authority is a different topic altogether.

Kosta50 reached out to Kolo for additional information

My knowledge of koine Greeek is very basic. I elevate it with Church Slavonic which I know very well. I upgrade my Greek with it because Church Slavonic is a one-to-one translation both word-by-word and concpet-for-concept. That's because it was eigineered to be that way by Greeks! So, it was accurate to their satisfaction.

If I am not sure how about soemthing using English translations (NIV, KJV, NAB, etc.) and lexicons such as Barnes' or Strong's, etc. I read it in Church Slavonic and everything is immediately clear. The conflict you and Mr. Rogers had, whether it was ordain or not, does not even exist in Greek or Church Slavonic!

So you have four professed Christians (right?) for whom authority is important, but subject to interpretation by us individually. We compare the data collected and match it to our preconceived notions to either reject or accept the data. A fairly subjective process, no?

No, the language is clear except in English versions. There's no word "ordination" used, but there is no doubt that St. Matthias was ordained.

If the Bible alone is an authority and we can ignore all other evidences how can we deny that Jedediah is a prophet?

I have no idea what you are talking about. I was not part of that discussion.

Is there no need for additional authority, outside the scriptures, in our age? It would seem from this discussion that at the very least some scholarly authority is needed, but it is accepted only in as much as it conforms to what we already believe

Much of the archaeological and historical evidence actually points to things most Christians do not believe and even vehemently reject.

[kosta50]

My reply post was in regards to the word “ordained” translated in the KJV v. the word “to become” translated in the ESV.

Here is another example.

Mark 5:34. NAB reads "And He said to her, "Daughter, your faith has made you well;..."

and KJV reads "And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole;..."

The Slavonic Bible says "He said to her, 'Daughter, your faith has saved you...' "

The word English Bibles translate as "made well" and "made whole" is σῴζω (sozo), whose principal meaning is to "save."

The English versions are not wrong per se (the word appears 110 times and in 93 cases it is translated as "save", 9 as "made whole," 3 as "heal").

My point is that when a Greek or a Slavic reader encounter this verse they read it as "save" (the word is used liturgically in that meaning), and the English readers see "make whole" or "make well," which doesn't have the same connotation.

Thus the sentence is experienced differently, depending on which language is used because "make whole" and "save" may be related but not the same.

[humblegunner]

“Do you know who said “ and I believe I have the mind if Christ “ ?”

You did, in post number seven.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2364842/posts?page=7#7

[Iscool]

Who’s we and how do you know?

Me and 50 million other people...Because we've seen them...

[D-fendr]

Tell about yours.

How many times, where, when, what looked like... did you get abducted, etc..

[MarkBsnr]

***Who’s we and how do you know?

Me and 50 million other people...Because we’ve seen them...***

Iscool, you have the chance right now should you choose to take it. What is your alien experience? Can you describe it? And can you list those 50 million other people (or at least 100 here on FR who will respond) along with their experiences. I wanna believe as much as Fox Mulder. Give me a reason for believing.

[BibChr]

Just another unpaid bill thanks to shoddy Bible teaching.

That is, a leaky-Canoneer.

That is, a Charismatic.

[1010RD]

Thank you Kosta and Kolo. I really appreciate your insights and willingness to share them.

[Kolokotronis]

You are very welcome.