Posted on 08/30/2009 5:06:19 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
....Now, regardless of how solid my answers, well, that's just the way Calvinists are, an answer for everything. Apparently, it's become a bad thing to be able to consistently and even minutely defend what you believe the Scripture teaches. If you can meet every challenge to your belief system, and do it robustly, that's a strike against you. Calvinists have answers...but you don't have to listen to them, because they've always got answers! I'm not entirely certain I understand that logic, but the rhetorical effect Cloud is shooting for here is quite clear: I know Calvinists have answers for whatever I'll say hereafter, but, trust me, there's nothing to them...it's all a smokescreen. No need to consider their answers. Just wave your hand and make them go away.
“I have my own private opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel, if we do not preach justification by faith, without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in His dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing, unchangeable, eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor do I think we can preach the gospel, unless we base it upon the special and particular redemption of His elect and chosen people which Christ wrought out upon the cross; nor can I comprehend a gospel which lets saints fall away after they are called, and suffers the children of God to be burned in the fires of damnation after having once believed in Jesus. Such a gospel I abhor.”
C.H.SPURGEON
It must be sad to have a faith that basically centers on saying "neener-neener, I'm right and you're oh so very wrong" to everyone else.
When the Reformation was in full flower and overtaking all of Europe with its return to Biblical Christianity along comes the Anabaptists who negate a fundamental principle of historic, orthodox Christianity, as well as preaching a defeatist pacifism in the face of Rome's aggressive deceit, thereby splintering and weakening the Reformation from within...for the next five centuries.
I truly love my reformed Baptist brethren and could worship happily alongside them any Sunday anywhere. But there is a history here that simply does not see the light of day. It is not signified for a reason. Some people enjoy the Protestant infighting.
From the introduction by Richard Bacon, First Presbyterian Manse, Rowlett, Texas: "Rev. Lee holds doctoral degrees in philosophy, jurisprudence, education, and theology. Dr. Lee's career has included callings as: official Translator for the South African Congress; Barrister of the Supreme Court of South Africa; Minister of the Word and Sacraments in both the United States and the Republic of South Africa; Professor of Philosophy; Scholar-in-Residence at a Christian "think-tank"; and Academic Dean at a North American College. Dr. Lee's articles and booklets include publications on history, law, philosophy, politics, theology, etc. His major publications include: About Sunday; Calvin on Creation; Calvin on the Sciences; A Christian Introduction to the History of Philosophy; Communism Versus Creation; Communist Eschatology; Effective Evangelism; Origin and Destiny of Man; The Central Significance of Culture; and The Covenantal Sabbath."
Everything is ultimately Rome's fault. See my comment above.
“[Calvinism] is not merely the hope of true religion in the world: it is true religion in the world — as far as true religion is in the world at all.” — B.B. Warfield
The problem with this view is so little is known about these early Christian Churches that existed prior to the Reformation by their own source documents. Also they were named by those that sought to denigrate them and misrepresent what they did to justify their persecution of them. The few source documents that we have give a different picture.
For example the Paulicians were accused of all kinds of heresies, but when their own records they called "The Key of Truth" were discovered in Armenia a different picture emerged. IOW, I put very little stock in history based on the view of a biased party. All of the churches that emerged from the Reformation did so with some of the same problems as the church they fought against. We see it in the doctrines on baptism, the Lord's Supper and especially early on the link between church and state.
The thing we forget about the Annabaptists is they persecuted by all the state churches not just the Roman Church.
“Lord, I thank thee I am not like those poor presumptuous Calvinists. Lord, I was born with a glorious free-will; I was born with power by which I can turn to thee of myself; I have improved my grace. If everybody had done the same with their grace that I have, they might all have been saved. Lord, I know thou dost not make us willing if we are not willing ourselves. Thou givest grace to everybody; some do not improve it, but I do. There are many that will go to hell as much bought with the blood of Christ as I was; they had as much of the Holy Ghost given to them; they had as good a chance, and were as much blessed as I am. It was not thy grace that made us to differ; I know it did a great deal, still I turned the point; I made use of what was given me, and others did not—that is the difference between me and them.” — An Arminian Prayer by CH Spurgeon
I am well aware of the magisterial Reformers' oppositon to the pernicious heresies of the anabaptists. We must never forget.
"Although the sovereignty of God is universal and absolute, it is not the sovereignty of blind power. It is coupled with infinite wisdom, holiness and love. And this doctrine, when properly understood, is a most comforting and reassuring one. Who would not prefer to have his affairs in the hands of a God of infinite power, wisdom, holiness and love, rather than to have them left to fate, or chance, or irrevocable natural law, or to short-sighted and perverted self? Those who reject God's sovereignty should consider what alternatives they have left." - (Boettner, The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination 32)."Whom God legally saves, He experimentally saves; whom He justifies, them He also sanctifies. Where the righteousness of Christ is imputed to an individual, a principle of holiness is imparted to him; the former can only be ascertained by the latter. It is impossible to obtain a Scriptural knowledge that the merits of Christ's finished work are reckoned to my account, except by proving that the efficacy of the Holy Spirit's work is evident in my soul." - Arthur W. Pink
Spend some time reading the book I linked to. It’s solid and well-sourced.
They were created for that very purpose -- divide and conquor.
Or divide, lay down arms, and conquor.
We should never under-estimate the opposition. They are lost, but not stupid.
Amen. Spurgeon captured the Arminian’s self-congratulations perfectly.
The Pope made you say that.
SOLI DEO GLORIA!
p.s. i will procure the arminian prayer as part of my teaching on apostates.
and Amen to your offering my dear elect sister!
EXURGE CALVINISTI,ET JUDICA,CAUSAM,TUAM!
I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Bear with me. The Anabaptists were not one uniform church. They were labeled as Anabaptists by those who were opposed to them. There were a variety of different types of "Anabaptists". A Baptistic "Anabaptist" group would not have anything in common with a Pentecostal-like "Anabaptist" group or one influenced by the Romanists.
The Reformation led to freedom of worship outside state control, but it was a process that took time. To deny that there were Christian Churches outside state control prior to the Reformation is to deny history.
If they were smart would they be lost?
I know, I know only if God wills. Calvin may not have been perfect but he is one heck of a good theologian.
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