Posted on 08/29/2009 8:14:40 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
Now you’re speaking their language
Silliness not a ping.
Given your screen name . . . are you older than my 62 years?
If you are, perhaps . . . perhaps
you’d be willing to do a thought experiment just for my curiosity.
PRETEND as hard as it might be . . . just pretend
that the usual things I say in summary about the UFO phenomena and the END TIMES
is at least 80% true.
What would you expect to be your responses for such truths to be outted on CNN day after day amidst great traumatic world events such as WWIII, major terrorists bombings and major quakes?
Kindly post the evidence by which "some researchers" trace the rapture/tribulation doctrine (aka Dispensationalism) back to the first century church.
The truth is that over two millennia of Christian history neither the Catholic nor the Orthodox Church has ever taught about any "rapture". It is simply not part of the traditional Christian faith.
And it's not just us Mary-worshippers: Martin Luther never heard of it. Calvin, Zwingli, and Henry VIII never heard of it. John Wesley might have heard of it, but he never taught it. So where did this strange doctrine come from?
it came from the USA by way of John Nelson Darby, a strident anti-Catholic Irish Anglican preacher and a renegade member of the Plymouth Brethren.
The Rapture seems to have been invented by a British religious figure named John Nelson Darby (1800-1882). He was ordained in the Church of Ireland and worked there to convert Catholics away from their folly. He was extremely pessimistic about what he saw as the state of the world and the state of the Church. He eventually left it, joining a dissident group called the Plymouth Brethren of which he soon became a prominent leader.So who does teach the Rapture? Not mainstream Christians. The Catholics and Greek Orthodox don't, as I said. But the Episcopals and Anglicans don't, either. The Lutherans don't. The Methodists and Presbyterians don't. Even most Baptists (those in union with Nashville) don't. The only denoms that push the whole Rapture thing are the Big Evangelicals (e.g the Assemblies of God), the 'non-denominational" Evangelical superchurches, and outfits like Ruckman and Bob Jones.About 1830, he began teaching that Jesus’ coming at the end of time would be preceded by a “rapture of the saints.” Some members of his own Brethren community objected that this was not biblically founded, but Darby dismissed any criticism. It had, he claimed, been revealed to him by God.
[...]
[S]cholars have suggested several possible influences on his Rapture views. In 1830, in Port Glasgow, Scotland, a 15-year-old girl, Margaret MacDonald, a follower of a charismatic Scottish preacher, Edward Irving, attended a healing service at which she saw a vision of a two-stage return of Christ. Darby adopted and expanded her vision.
Another suggestion traces the influence to a Jesuit priest, Manuel Lacunza (1731-1801), who was born in Chile but came to Italy in 1767 where he would spend the rest of his life. Posing as a converted Jew (under the pseudonym Juan Josafat Ben Ezra), he wrote, in Spanish, a large apocalyptic work entitled The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty. The book appeared first in 1811, 10 years after his death. In 1827, it was translated into English by none other than Edward Irving, an acquaintance of and possible influence on Darby. Given Darby’s hatred of Catholics, this possible influence adds an ironic touch! Source
So, with all due respect, I think I'll stick with the belief in the Second Coming as taught by our Lord, the Catholic Church, and the entire Christian faith up until the 19th Century. As entertaining as the whole "last days" thing is (I have a huge collection of Rapture/Trib propaganda, btw), it ain't the Truth. If I want to read 19th Century science fiction I'll stick with Jules Verne.
Naw.
It’s been posted before hereon. That’s enough.
I didn’t realize that
ya’ll’s rubber Bibles didn’t include Thessalonians.
I already withdrew my ping.
I believe that there have been many instances in history when we thought we had identified the Beloved of the Morningstar and that we were in the end times. But Jesus will come like a thief in the night, and no man knows the time.
I will be 63 in December, and with my family history, I’m living on borrowed time.
I was a Baptist when I first heard the end times rapture business and it brought me to the Lord. I think you’d be surprised how many do teach it to some extent. We had a wonderful teaching on it for a whole SS semester. I sincerely hope you will be in the rapture and not sitting on the ground wondering what happened.
So is the meeting Him in the air Hokum tto?
No.
But the idea that the Lord is going to return, stop halfway down, go back up, and then come all he way down seven years later is pure baloney. There is not going to be a Coming 2.5 or 3.0 — there’s just going to be the same Second Coming we’ve been waiting for all these years.
Just another group of protestants making up a theology to suit themselves.
“Kindly post the evidence by which “some researchers” trace the rapture/tribulation doctrine...”
Oh boy..you are in way over your head. Quix can site backwards and forward where the “calling up” is covered in the Bible. Now if you choose to poo-poo it and explain it all away there’s not much one can say. We will just consider you one of the end times “scoffers.
It is there clearly (although rapture is not the term used).
The Great Mystery, Blessed Hope, Called Up in the twinkling of an eye...it’s all there.
*raises hand*
Can I trade my red pill for a blue one?
Merely quoting Scripture is not enough to convince me. A given passage of Scripture can be interpreted any way the reader likes, which is why there are so many denominations out there. Each denomination, of course, claims that it and it alone has the ability to correctly interpret Scripture “by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit”. No, I need an authority to explain to me what a given passage of Scripture means, and its place in the entire body of Christian teaching.
That authority is the Catholic Church. It was given this power directly by the Lord, who granted St. Peter the “Office of the Keys”. The Church, built upon the Rock of St. Peter, is the only authority I trust to tell me what Scripture means and how it applies to me.
Now, I know that many people do not accept the authority of the Church to do this — and that’s okay. It’s a shame, but I’m not here to sell anyone on the Catholic Church (that’s the Holy Spirit’s gig). However, since I myself have come to accept the teaching authority of the Church, any attempt to interpret Scripture that contradicts the two thousand years of Christian doctrine passed down by the Church is not going to convince me.
And neither the Catholic Church nor any of the Orthodox churches have ever taught that our Lord will appear in a “Coming 2.5” to take away the Christians, go back to Heaven, wait around for seven Earth years, then return again (Coming 3.0) to finish the story. None of the mainstream Protestant churches teach it, either — not the Lutherans, not the Calvinists, not the Methodists, Episcopalians, or Congregationalists. Most of the Baptist churches in America don’t teach it either. The only Christian groups who teach the rapture thing are ones that began in relatively recent years (i.e. since AD 1800). And, frankly, I’m not ready to ditch two millennia of Christian teaching on the say so of “theological n00bz”.
But, as a collector of End Times propaganda, I’m always up for a look at new material, the foamier the better. So bring it on. I like Quix, but more for the UFO stuff.
Amen to that He does no U-turns. Post trib pre wrath.
SCRIPTURE DECLARES
THAT JESUS IS
COMING
FOR THOSE
WHO
ARE LOOKING FOR HIS APPEARING.
Perhaps those who aren’t, won’t see Him come . . . won’t rise to meet Him in the air.
So impressive of you to tell The Lord God Almighty what
He meant.
My own position is that I dont’ think anyone has it all figured out. However, The Scriptural prophecies related to such will come true quite literally to the letter.
That assertion is utter balderdash.
Thanks for your kind post.
Perhaps.
But I’ve never understood what that’s all about. Could you please enlighten me?
Psychoactive drugs or what? I’ve been away from that sort of counseling collaboration for quite some time.
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