Making Bad Prophecy Predictions Vanish

American Vision ^ | August 4, 2009 | Gary DeMar

[topcat54]

"We are now more than 60 years removed from the 1948 founding of Israel. The interpretive methodology used by Smith, Lindsey, Dave Hunt, and others making the 1948–1988 connection was fundamental to their claim that they were following a literal hermeneutic. If a literal hermeneutic results in near certainty of when prophetic events will take place but ends in a colossal miscalculation on a key element of their system, how should the interpretive methodology that brought them to that calculation be evaluated? To paraphrase Jesus, 'An interpretive tree is known by its fruit, and the 1948–1988 timetable has turned out to be rotten fruit no matter how you slice it.'"

[topcat54]

Reformed Eschatology Ping List (REPL)
Biblically Optimistic and Gospel-Based

"For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Luke 21:22)

[topcat54]

“Keep in mind that it’s not only important to show where Smith was wrong in his predictions, it’s crucial that we understand that he is using an interpretive model that leads him to make these predictions.”

[Alex Murphy]

To paraphrase Jesus, 'An interpretive tree is known by its fruit, and the 1948–1988 timetable has turned out to be rotten fruit no matter how you slice it.'"

Great analysis of Chuck Smith's failed date-setting. Thanks for the ping, TC!

[Lee N. Field]

Down the Memory Hole.

[thulldud]

Years ago, I found, in the local K-Mart, a book titled "Christ Returns by 1988, 101 Reasons Why." At least one of those reasons was Jimmy Carter's election to the Presidency!

Shoulda bought that book, but I was very broke in those days. It remained on sale until sometime in 1985, and then it quietly disappeared.

[P8riot]

I first came to faith under the teaching of Chuck Smith back in 1974, and was even baptized in the ocean at "pirates cove" in Corona del Mar. I, and A LOT of folks like me were really searching for something better than the drug culture of southern California. I cannot fault a lot of "pastor Chuck's" teaching as it points to Jesus as being the only way to salvation. God used Chuck and Calvary Chapel (CC) as a tool to bring many of us to him, and I praise Him for the work He performed in me during that period of my life. Chuck was also a personal friend. We surfed together more than once.

Nevertheless, I always had a problem with the dogmatic eschatology espoused by CC, and I let Chuck know that I believed that it was contray to the teaching of scripture, and was risky business, specially when those predictions failed to materialize. He listened to what I had to say, and never made me feel that I was any less of a Christian for believing the way I did (and still do). It seemed to me during that time that Chuck was not really setting dates or prophesying events, but was rather conjecturing as to a possible scenario for the return of Christ. That fit with the dispensational premillennialism that was (and still is) prevalent in protestant circles. Personally, I was staunchly Calvinistic at the time (I am even moreso now), though I didn't know enough about it to realize it. It really didn't matter anyway back then, because all we cared about was loving and serving Jesus, and one another.

I cannot speak to the years since I left CC in 1982. About the only remnant I have of that time are a few Maranatha Music CDs and tapes.

You can fault Chuck Smith on his eschatology, but bear in mind that he is not the only practitioner of the form. His preaching that Jesus is the only way to God, falls right in line with scripture.

[xzins]

Conjecture: that is the key word. Conjecture is NOT date-setting.

Calvary Chapel tapes while I was overseas in the military as a young man in 1972 was the first Christian teaching I ever received after coming to Christ. Chuck Smith was line-by-line, clear, and convincing. He ably explained his model of eschatology, and I still consider it my favorite model.

The problem with conjecture is that those who disagree with your model and those who agree with your model can be your worst nightmares.

Those who disagree with you will not hear your use of modifiers like "might" or "maybe" or "possibly", and they will assert that you have taught that certain things WILL be, when you've really only said that they "might" be, as based on scripture.

Many of those who agree with your model also will not hear your "mights" and "maybes." They will then use your words to take them to outlandish biblical conclusions that you never would have supported.

The bottom line is that Christians must know and appreciate more than one model of biblical eschatology and keep track of them all. Future things have always involved a bit of interpretation.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Great post, P8riot. Yours is the kind of comment I can't wait to get to the end of to see who's writing it.

Surfing Calvinists! Righteous! 8~)

[blue-duncan]

“Conjecture is NOT date-setting”

The question of imminency has always been a problem in eschatology, starting with the prophets. Even the eminent Amillennial scholar, Oswald Allis, thought that Augustine had predicted the Second Coming taking place in 635 A.D. because of Augustine’s 7 millennium “dispensations”.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Eschatology is interesting and arguable, as you say. But the biggest error, imo, of dispensationalism is that it denies the church to be the new Israel. This upends the fact that the Gospel is the answer for ALL people, and has been since the world began.

"Neither Jew nor Greek...all one in Christ Jesus."

I'm a big backer of the idea that the counter Reformation never ended, but has continued to work its mayhem through the centuries.

Disrupt, divide and conquer.

[xzins]

Imminency.

Excellent point, b-d!!

Christ’s own instructions: “Watch!”

[xzins]

The bottom line, DrE, with Israel and the Church is Romans 9-11 and Acts 15.

You find BOTH.

[P8riot]

I think we as Christians, need to get past the minutiae of eschatology, baptisms (infant, sprinkle, dunk or otherwise) and build one another up in our belief. The world is trying its damndest to tear us down, we don't need to help them along.

In Matthew 25:31 and following, Christ tells us that our actions reveal our faith. He is not the least concerned as tho whether we are pre-trib, post-trib, or pan-trib. It is all about the actions our faith inspires.

[1000 silverlings]

But the biggest error, imo, of dispensationalism is that it denies the church to be the new Israel.

It really is comparable to the Jews waiting for their literal Messiah who was going to usher in their literal kingdom. Well the Messiah was literal, but He was also Spiritual, but as He told them, the kingdom is spiritual,not of this world, yet here they are still today,going to build that temple and they've convinced many Christians, that the kingdom is earthly.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Future things have always involved a bit of interpretation

The only "future thing" we are to be concerned with is our heavenly destination while today we "work out our salvation with fear and trembling" as a good watchman. Today is our duty to serve God through worship and the preaching of the Gospel which will transform lives and nations.

But the time of Christ's return is not for us to know or even debate. "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." (2 Peter 3:10)

Larger Catechism of the Westminster Confession of Faith - Question 45:

How doth Christ execute the office of a king?

The answer is Christ executeth the office of a king, in calling out of the world a people to himself, and giving them officers, laws, and censures, by which he visibly governs them; in bestowing saving grace on his elect, rewarding them for their obedience, and correcting them for their sins; preserving and supporting them under all their temptations and sufferings, restraining and overcoming all their enemies, and powerfully ordering all things for his own glory, and their good; and also in taking vengeance on the rest, who know not God, and obey not the gospel."

That's today, even if it's not always so obvious.

[xzins]

I just used the 2 Pe 3 verse on a thread about global warming. :>)

DrE, I’m not going to agree on this one. I think Jesus does tell us both to watch and to watch for signs. Paul reiterates the same.

So, there is an element of negligence in not being a Berean on this subject. To be a Berean on the subject of eschatology requires interpretation.

It just does.

And I still love ya as a sister in Christ.

Grace & Peace,

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I do not get in the slightest how Christians can think building that third temple makes sense for Chrisianity. Let the lost build whatever they want. But Christians should preach the Gospel to all men for the saving of their souls by the third and final temple, Jesus Christ.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***Shoulda bought that book, but I was very broke in those days. ***

BROKE? They only cost two dollars! I bought two and still have them. I keep them with my other “failed end times” prophecy books.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

But didn't Christ say the only sign of note is the sign of Jonah, His resurrection?

And right back at ya, brother/pastor/pal. 8~)