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[Catholic Caucus] Mel's marriage is annulled ... by his own dad
Woman's Day (Australia) ^ | 8/3/2009

Posted on 08/04/2009 5:43:44 AM PDT by markomalley

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To: VidMihi
Why can we not admit that once healthy marriages can for whatever reason die? Why can't we let go of the ghost of Henry VIII and allow a divorce?

Perhaps because marriage annulments have nothing to do with what happens after the marriage begins. They are concerned with determining whether or not the marriage was valid at the time it occurred. They are fundamentally different from a civil divorce, most people's perceptions notwithstanding.

41 posted on 08/04/2009 10:20:16 AM PDT by ELS (Vivat Benedictus XVI!)
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To: markomalley; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...
"Especially important was Mel's description of how he felt pressured into the marriage in the first place because Robyn was pregnant," a family insider says.

ROFL!!!! Following his father's thinking on this matter .. this marriage should not take place because the future bride is also pregnant. That renders the future marriage invalid before it even takes place.

Mel is in serious need of prayers! He has lost his way.

42 posted on 08/04/2009 10:35:00 AM PDT by NYer ("One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone"- Benedict XVI)
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To: markomalley
his breakaway Catholic church

******************

Correct me if I'm wrong, but imho, there is nothing "Catholic" about this church.

43 posted on 08/04/2009 10:39:41 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: ELS
Permit me to clarify.

Why can we not allow that once healthy and valid marriages can die for reasons other than the physical death of one or the other. Baptism and Orders are permanent - where does it say marriage is. The physical death of one party will end the marriage, though some would like to hold that it continues in heaven. A marriage can morally die. Slaves separated from their spouses were allowed to marry another. Leave marriage to the consciences of the people, not to the control of ecclesiastical tribunals.

44 posted on 08/04/2009 10:39:46 AM PDT by VidMihi ("In fide, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.")
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To: markomalley

this poor guy and his poor family and this poor pregnant...whatever she is. ugh, what a disaster.


45 posted on 08/04/2009 10:42:05 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand (The revolution IS being televised.)
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To: markomalley

It’s all about the alcohol.


46 posted on 08/04/2009 10:58:29 AM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: VidMihi
where does it say marriage is.

In the Bible. Which the Church has received the authority to interpret (it being her book and all).

Human conscience is where the concept of marriage for life was first recognized. There is no such thing as the "moral death" of a marriage, any more than there could be the moral death of someone's human nature. The practice of people degraded to conditions of slavery can hardly be considered normative or consistent with human nature, I'm thinking. So your example is meaningless.

47 posted on 08/04/2009 11:12:30 AM PDT by Romulus ("Ira enim viri iustitiam Dei non operatur")
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To: VidMihi
What about Jesus Christ at the wedding feast at Cana: "What God has joined together, let no man put asunder." The question in annulment is whether God put the marriage together in the first place and not whether Suzy or Johnny has found a more desirable main squeeze subsequent to the marriage and rationalized him/her self into thinking the original marriage invalid since the spouse seeking annulment soooooo wants a new spouse. Or, in Henry VIII Tudor's case, a desire for a male heir and for Anne Boleyn (his probable illegitimate daughter according to his contemporary biographer Nicholas Sandler who was executed for saying so) and six others.

What do you think? Was old Henry's sixth marriage legitimate???? Or his fifth? Or his fourth? Or his third? Or his second? Do you think it was OK for him to execute bishops like St. John Fisher for refusing to become accomplices in his adulteries? Or St. Thomas More?

Will we also leave abortion, homosexuality, etc., to "the consciences of the people" whatever that may mean (individualist anarchy??? Democracy on moral theology in the pews???)? We are discussing the Roman Catholic Church which is not some windtunnel self-esteem movement.

Jesus Christ said to Peter: "What you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and what you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. I give you the keys of the kingdom." Pursuant to that grant of authority, Peter and his successors are the source of those ecclesiastical tribunals that you demean.

48 posted on 08/04/2009 11:42:23 AM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: growingpains

That’s entirely untrue.

Payment is made so that the Church can facilitate the tribunal/paperwork/internal costs that go into granting annullments. The Church doesn’t make a profit of any kind off of annulments. The payments, in fact, are more than justifiable. If I come to you to resolve a problem of my own making, and expect you to use your time/resources/personnel to address and resolve this problem of my making, shouldn’t I pay for the costs you incur?


49 posted on 08/04/2009 12:13:18 PM PDT by Rutles4Ever (Ubi Petrus, ibi ecclesia, et ubi ecclesia vita eterna!)
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Comment #50 Removed by Moderator

To: VidMihi
Why can we not allow that once healthy and valid marriages can die for reasons other than the physical death of one or the other. Baptism and Orders are permanent - where does it say marriage is. The physical death of one party will end the marriage, though some would like to hold that it continues in heaven. A marriage can morally die. Slaves separated from their spouses were allowed to marry another. Leave marriage to the consciences of the people, not to the control of ecclesiastical tribunals.

Because Christ himself outlawed divorce. Whereas God tolerated divorce in the Old Testament, due to man's degree of unenlightened-ness, once the Golden Rules were set down by Christ - thus enlightening mankind to "The Way, the Truth, and the Life" - there becomes no justification for divorce, no valid reason a spiritual/physical union should just be declared "dead" because someone stops "feeling" love or stops physically "demonstrating" love. If one spouse obstinantly presents a threat to the life and physical well-being of a family, the Church understands that a civil divorce may become necessary, however, no re-marriage may occur unless the original is annulled.

Annullment does not occur unless the Church decides that one or both of the spouses in question entered into the marriage contract under false pretenses, under duress, with psychological deformity, or with the foreknowledge of complete and total infertility (inability to consummate the union). Until and unless this occurs, every marriage is as unbreakable as Christ's bond with his Church.

51 posted on 08/04/2009 12:21:15 PM PDT by Rutles4Ever (Ubi Petrus, ibi ecclesia, et ubi ecclesia vita eterna!)
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Comment #52 Removed by Moderator

To: markomalley

This is insane. Mel’s got more ‘issues’ than i thought.


53 posted on 08/04/2009 12:24:32 PM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: VidMihi
The problem does not arise in such cases as yours, but in marriages of many years, many children, and much parish involvements. (CFM, CCD etc)

Marriage is not defined by longevity or offspring. I don't wake up everyday and wonder, "Gee, it's been eight years. Am I married yet?" Marriage either occurs, or doesn't, when the vows are made between spouses. They are the dispensors of their own sacrament. The priest is a witness and provides the blessing of the Church, but he does not administer the sacrament.

You could have 18 kids and be share wedding rings with someone for decades and not be legitimately married in the first place. If it's determined that the vows were valid, no amount of "irrenconcilable differences" afterwards can in-validate those vows.

54 posted on 08/04/2009 12:28:02 PM PDT by Rutles4Ever (Ubi Petrus, ibi ecclesia, et ubi ecclesia vita eterna!)
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To: Sacajaweau

$1000 is peanuts in consideration of the resources, work hours, and attorney fees that go into securing an annullment. This isn’t a process whereby someone looks at a questionairre, decides whether their coffee is strong enough, and then decides to rubber stamp an annullment.

Attorneys are involved (yes, they bill the diocese), as are people who serve on tribunals, and those who support each case by collecting, organizing, and documenting all the information that goes before the board. You think everyone just volunteers their time to subject themselves to all of the gory details of failed relationships and broken families?


55 posted on 08/04/2009 12:34:10 PM PDT by Rutles4Ever (Ubi Petrus, ibi ecclesia, et ubi ecclesia vita eterna!)
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To: NYer

Truth be told, myself being a TLM going traditional catholic, I gave up on Mel soon as he opened his “own private catholic church”. There is no such thing. A real Catholic must submit to Rome, period.

To obtain an “annulment” given by his father is truly obscene and obnoxious.

To be fair, I still give Mel credit for the movie Passion, which is very good. Too bad his own demons won over him.


56 posted on 08/04/2009 1:56:07 PM PDT by m4629 (politically incorrect, and proud of it)
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To: Travis McGee

Your comment reflects poorly upon you because it reveals your 1) utter ignorance; 2) intellectual shortcomings; or 3) intellectual dishonesty.


57 posted on 08/04/2009 2:02:51 PM PDT by Notwithstanding (Wer glaubt ist nie allein. Who believes is never alone.)
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To: markomalley

I guess we won’t know whether

Mel’s second attempt
to marry
a pregnant fiancee

is valid

until

one of them dies
or
they split up.


58 posted on 08/04/2009 2:06:47 PM PDT by Notwithstanding (Wer glaubt ist nie allein. Who believes is never alone.)
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To: Rutles4Ever
18 kids after a church wedding and no apparent problems, parish activity, and general happiness over a number of years is a pretty good indication of a good marriage. On what grounds is anyone going to declare this marriage invalid. And if they did - would it be understandable if people concluded “Money talks”. The end of such a marriage requires a divorce not an annulment. Be honest.
59 posted on 08/04/2009 2:24:53 PM PDT by VidMihi ("In fide, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.")
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To: vladimir998; Sacajaweau
Most people throughout history were turned down as a matter of fact.

Think Henry VIII for example...

60 posted on 08/04/2009 2:33:37 PM PDT by It's me
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