| This thread has been locked, it will not receive new replies. |
|
Locked on 10/27/2009 12:40:43 PM PDT by Admin Moderator, reason:
Childish behavior. |
Posted on 07/25/2009 2:40:04 AM PDT by Quix
There was a reason for it, but no explanation will be forthcoming.
On the Religion Forum, there are three form of "making it personal."
The first is reading another Freeper's mind. For one Freeper to call another Freeper "dear" or say "I love you" is not reading the other guy's mind but expressing his own.
The second is attributing motives to another Freeper, personally. Again, calling another Freeper "dear" doesn't say anything about his motives.
The third is making the thread "about" individual Freepers. This can happen with regard to most any issue - including this one. All the Freepers involved might be told to "knock it off" or "leave the thread" if they have derailed the discussion so badly that other Freepers are adversely affected by it.
It is a judgment call though, like deciding when a thread must be locked for "childish behavior."
If you want to "return fire" for the use of a term of endearment, you must also use a term of endearment such as "honey" or "sweetie pie" or "beloved" etc.
Quite interesting, since he wasn’t prosecuted in civil court. It is true that Tyndale varied in fortune with Henry. His opposition to Henry’s divorce encouraged Henry, who started as an avid Catholic, to hate Tyndale. Thomas More hated Tyndale as well, writing several obscene pieces against him and I’m told one book fingers More as the man most responsible for Tyndale’s arrest.
That said, Anne Boleyn was a strong supporter of him. In one of his works, he argued the sovereign of a country didn’t need to give allegiance in civil matters to Rome. Henry was quite happy when he heard passages of it read, but was not so happy when he found out who wrote the passages.
After his arrest, one of his closest friends, Thomas Poyntz, tried to arrange his freedom. His brother John took a petition to Thomas Cromwell, who had already sounded out King Henry. “A memorandum records that he made a visit to the palace, probably in August [1535] ‘to know the king’s pleasure for Tyndale, and whether I shall write or not’. The king agreed that efforts should be made to save Tyndale. This may have been at the prompting of Queen Anne; she was pregnant again...” - God’s Bestseller, pg 357.
Further, “Cromwell wrote two letters...One was addressed...the archbishop of Palermo; the other was to the marquis of Bergen...The letters have not survived. They must, however, have appealed for clemency as a matter of grace rather than law. Heresy was an international crime, in the sense that the courts of any territory in which a suspect was seized were competent to try him or her, regardless of nationality. Tyndale was thus charged under the laws of the Low Countries.” - pg 357
Poyntz was one of the couriers. “After the marquis had read the letter, he told Poyntz irritably that some Flemings ‘were burned in England not long before’...and that the English themselves burnt Anabaptists at Smithfield” - pg 357
Eventually the marquis did write letters of mild support, but the appeal was turned down by the queen-regent and council. - pg 358 Eventually, the guy who betrayed Tyndale was able to have Poyntz arrested for a time as a suspected heretic.
As I wrote before, Tyndale’s 3 main accusers were theologians: Ruard Tapper, Jacobus Latomu and Jan Doye. After the Tyndale matter, Tapper was appointed by the Pope as inquisitor general of the Low Countries. I should note the Low Countries fell under the Holy Roman Emperor Charles V.
The actual proceedings were in private. What we know of them comes from what Latomus wrote 6 years later. For a discussion of it, see:
http://www.tyndale.org/Reformation/1/wilkinson.html
Meanwhile, in England, Catherine of Aragon died, first writing Henry a last letter showing far more love that that evil man deserved! If it didn’t prick his conscience, then the stillborn son of Anne may have turned the tide. His influence in the matter with Charles V may not have been sufficient even if he had tried, but with the Tyndale supporting Anne soon to die, Tyndale couldn’t expect any further help, however mild.
Tyndale was found guilty of heresy in August 1536...a year after More’s death. He was degraded from the priesthood and handed over to the civil authorities. Since he was not a relapsed heretic, he was given the mercy of being strangled before burnt, but it seems the executioner did a poor job and he was probably still alive when the fires were lit. There is no corroboration of Foxe’s claim that his last words were for Henry to have his eyes opened, but neither is there a contradictory account.
I’m not certain - I make no pretense of being a historian - but I believe a charge of treason against Henry would have required his transfer to England. Given that he had 3 Catholic theologians as prosecutors, I doubt he was tried for civil treason. Also, Queen Anne was a supporter of his at the time of his arrest, and Henry was suffering no harm from Tyndale’s opinions on his marriage.
Also, there was nothing unfair about his trial. On the charge of heresy, his published works would suffice for conviction. According to “God’s Bestseller”, Tyndale was treated with exceptional courtesy for the time, and not tortured during interrogation. Since what we know comes from one of his interrogators, it could be biased - but there was no doubt that Tyndale was a heretic, as defined in the days of Charles V & the Catholic Church. The decrees from the Council of Trent could have been written with him in mind (although they were not).
King Henry was a horrible man. Thomas More’s wife once told him how glad she was that he had the king for a friend...More replied that if Henry could gain a castle by killing More, then he’d be dead in a moment.
However, the evidence seems good to me that Tyndale was killed for religious reasons. That was quite common in the day, and both Protestants and Catholics did so with glee. Some of Thomas More’s writings show a rather unsaintly rejoicing in how much the burning men suffered. I admire Calvin for some of his theological writings, but if I wandered into Geneva in his day, I would have been executed as a Baptist heretic, if I had the strength to stay true.
Personally, I find it a bit overwhelming at times to realize the things we discuss openly here were once the cause of many men dying in great pain!
Quix, you better hurry and post part 2 if you want to get all fifty reasons in before...you know.
Thank you.
You can call me dear any time you want to, Judith Anne. It’s a term I use often.
It is to me. And I’m a lot better judge of that than you are, Trish.
Why not? others of you do.
Again, in which court was he prosecuted?
...I’m told one book fingers More as the man most responsible for Tyndale’s arrest.
That's so convincing.
Given that he had 3 Catholic theologians as prosecutors, I doubt he was tried for civil treason.
More presumptions.
As I wrote before, Tyndale’s 3 main accusers were theologians: Ruard Tapper, Jacobus Latomu and Jan Doye.
What kind of court convicted him? Who had him killed?
The Catholic church is the umbrella over your church. I have never said anything about the actual church you attend or your pastor.
We’re talking about the actual building where you attend church, not the denomination.
LOL
Who had him killed?
Nope. Sorry.
The Catholic Church is my church.
I have never said anything about the actual church you attend...
Bzzzt. Wrong.
The Catholic Church is not a denomination. That's a protestant thing.
I was referring to Religion forum rules. Not to your personal feelings.
It was a dreadful period in history. The cruelty that people routinely inflicted on one another is shocking in this day and age.
In my decades I've known a lot of little old ladies who were truly vicious, and deserved every bit of family and cocial opprobrium they garnered.
As far as me calling you "dear," well, has hell frozen over?
Actually, I'm told that the Catholic Church is 242 contradictory denominations, and that figure comes from a reliable, Catholic-vetted source!
Whoopsie! That would be “social.”
>>Why not? others of you do.<<
Unlike the post I was responding to, this cannot be backed up with facts.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.