No Salvation Outside the Church

Catholic Answers ^ | 12/05 | Fr. Ray Ryland

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Why do you think Catholics love their rosaries so much in the face of biblical injunction against ?vain? repetition?

"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." -- John 3:19

[PugetSoundSoldier]

Grace is irrelevant. It is by works and actions that Catholics are saved, according to papertyger. You can earn your way into Heaven, faith and Grace are not needed.

With zealots like that, there is no common ground. We are condemned to Hell in his own words, because we do not accept the exact same dogma as he espouses.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

"Be not afraid; only believe." -- Mark 5:36

[Semper Mark]

Grace gives us the salvation that we don’t deserve and cannot merit.

By grace through faith.

[papertyger]

Be content where GOD has placed you.

I couldn't be content with a theology that "works" even when God's participation is not necessary.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Amen. It is all of free, unmerited grace from start to finish.

[bdeaner]

The same way the early Christians did.

The Early Christians Believed in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist

"Consider how contrary to the mind of God are the heterodox in regard to the grace of God which has come to us. They have no regard for charity, none for the widow, the orphan, the oppressed, none for the man in prison, the hungry or the thirsty. They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, the flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in His graciousness, raised from the dead."

-- St. Ignatius (50-circa 100)

[papertyger]

Then what good is grace?

Grace has no value if it's not a blank check?

[Semper Mark]

The flesh of Christ is his word.

Christ is The Word of God!

When you read it and believe it and apply to your life,
you consume it.

[bdeaner]

Grace gives us the salvation that we don’t deserve and cannot merit.

Yes, the Catholic Church agrees. We did nothing to deserve Salvation. We did nothing to deserve the instrumental means of grace available through the sacraments of the Church. But Our Lord in his infinite mercy chose to provide us this means to eternal life gratuitously, without merit. And we require the faith and hope, again given to us through grace and without merit, through which we can become one with Christ in His Church, through participation in the Sacraments. Not all have faith. Not all have hope. And therefore not all understand the grace available through the Church. Many choose to sever themselves from the Body of Christ, and as a result choose death for themselves rather than eternal life. Those who have faith and hope are obligated to pray for the conversion of these unfortunate souls.

God bless.

[bdeaner]

Christ is The Word of God!

When you read it and believe it and apply to your life, you consume it.

Yes, but that contradicts nothing I stated previously. Christ is not ONLY the Word; He is also the Bread of Life. And He is also the Head of the Church. As a lover of Our Lord's Word in Scripture, I implore you to read the whole of the scriptures, not merely those parts that suit your personal theology.

God bless.

[papertyger]

When you read it and believe it and apply to your life, you consume it.

Which is why Christ passed out little gideon bibles at the last supper, right?

[bdeaner]

And pssst. Read my tagline. ;)

[Semper Mark]

When I was saved by the grace of God through faith in my Savior Christ Jesus, I was born again into him.

I am now in Him, not Catholicism, not Protestantism, but in Him. In other words, now when a Holy God looks at me, He doesn't see the lowlife sinner Markos33, Praise God, He now sees Christ.

You can take your chances with anything else that you want, but I'm resting assured in Christ and His finished work on my behalf.

[bdeaner]

"Be not afraid; only believe." -- Mark 5:36

Yes, BELIEVE in what Christ instituted through His Church! Don't be afraid Dr. E! The sacraments are waiting for you if and when you are ready. ;)

I pray all will be given the grace and hope to believe in the Truth that is Christ's Mystical Body of the Church -- the instrumental means for our salvation.

[bdeaner]

You can take your chances with anything else that you want, but I'm resting assured in Christ and His finished work on my behalf.

I pray to the Lord in His Infinite Mercy that your faith is enough. I'd like to see you in Heaven with me. God bless.

[Semper Mark]

My faith isn't enough. Nothing about me is enough.

This is why I'm hiding in Him, for He is more than sufficient!

I'd like to see you in my eternal home someday too FRiend.

Trust in Christ and nothing else.

[bdeaner]

Trust in Christ and nothing else.

Amen. We are agreed. We just have different ideas about HOW to Trust in Christ.

Someday I will have to tell you my personal testimony about the incredible graces I have experienced participating in the sacraments. Through the sacrament of Confession, the Lord took away my desire for pornography -- it does nothing for me now. Those demons were chased away. Participation in the Sacrament of the Eucharist has transformed my life. I hear and read the Word and I also eat His Body and Drink His Blood. What a tremendous gift it is, for me, to stand before the Eucharist and KNOW, before me, that IS My Lord present materially in the flesh in the re-representation of His Sacrifice on Calvary. Wow! And to take the hidden manna of His Flesh into MY Body -- how can I not be changed? It brings me to my knees. I wish you could have that experience just once, and then maybe, just maybe you might understand where I'm coming from...

Sadly though, many Catholics take the Eucharist but do not really believe. They eat and drink judgment upon them selves, says the Word of God. I pray the Lord will be merciful with them -- I was once there myself.

God bless.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I pray all will be given the grace and hope to believe in the Truth that is Christ's Mystical Body of the Church -- the instrumental means for our salvation.

The Pharisees thought their standing in the temple would save them, too.

We are not saved by an ecclesiastic hierarchy of fallen men. We are saved by Jesus Christ paying for every one of our sins in full, by the will of God for the glory of God.

Christ did not say to believe in mysticism and tyranny; in fables about Mary or lies about "another Christ."

He said "Believe in me and my righteousness; in the work I do on the cross for your sake.

"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" -- Phil. 1:6

[Dr. Eckleburg]

What a tremendous gift it is, for me, to stand before the Eucharist and KNOW, before me, that IS My Lord present materially in the flesh

But that is not how Christ told us to worship him. We are spiritual beings and we are to worship and enjoy Him spiritually.

If the materialistic so enthralls you, it's too bad you don't experience the spiritual. It is far superior. As God wills.

"While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal." -- 2 Corinthians 4:18