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No Salvation Outside the Church
Catholic Answers ^ | 12/05 | Fr. Ray Ryland

Posted on 06/27/2009 10:33:55 PM PDT by bdeaner

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To: PugetSoundSoldier
Those with an open mind will accept that both interpretations are valid; both traditions - transubstantiation and symbolism - lay equal claim. Meaning both positions are positions of dogma.

There can be only one truth.

781 posted on 06/29/2009 8:10:35 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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Comment #782 Removed by Moderator

To: PugetSoundSoldier
There is no need to "call Protestants back to the Church"; we never left. We just worship in a different way, with some small - but not critical - doctrinal issues.

There is when, like me, the people who are guiding you are actually guiding you AWAY from the Jesus of the Bible, which is the Jesus of the Catholic Church, and toward the Jesus of "Your Own Interpretation."

783 posted on 06/29/2009 8:14:32 PM PDT by papertyger (A difference that makes no difference is no difference)
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Comment #784 Removed by Moderator

To: Petronski

There can be only one truth, and I thank God that he will not administer a theology test when I stand before Him! That doesn’t mean it isn’t important to seek the truth - after all, we’re approaching post 800 on this thread alone - but I doubt I could score 100% if God Himself administered the test.

Fortunately, the test will be, “Do I know you?”

Not, “Did you correctly know everything about Me and My Church?”


785 posted on 06/29/2009 8:15:20 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: cva66snipe

There is lots of confusion between the different major Christian Churches, especially in their doctrine and vocabulary, building upon one another.

Redemption, properly stated, was directed at sin and performed by our Lord Jesus on the Cross. It was a universal redemption (not a universal salvation).

Redemption is required, in order for a Just and righteous God to provide salvation.

Forgiveness, now becomes the issue for the sinner, who now considers the Gospel.

Once we return to God and confess our sin to Him, even for the first acceptance of Him, then the believer is POSITIONALLY sanctified, i.e. saved by faith alone in Christ alone.

We are not saved because of our faith, rather we are saved through our Faith, by His work in us.


786 posted on 06/29/2009 8:17:40 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Mr Rogers
On all of these discussions, it can be hard to separate genuine doctrine from the folks we’ve met who claimed things that just were not true.

I will submit with good will that you are far more likely to find genuine doctrine of the Catholic Church in the Catechism than any given statement by any Catholic poster or friend or priest or bishop.

787 posted on 06/29/2009 8:17:46 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: papertyger
Do you think that confers on you an authority to contradict Christ's clear pronouncements?

Why did Christ say in Matthew 23 and to whom did He say it too and why? Believe me I'm not picking on any one church as all have them in positions of authority in the church. But here's some examples. Widows send your monthy pension to Brother Bubba who will pray for you. Brother have you done this, this, this, this, and this to recieve your salvation? No? You're going to hell then. Do you speak in tounges, roll in the floor, laugh into hysteria, handle deadly snakes without being asked of from GOD to do so? No? same answer. Do you invite your neighbor to church yet refuse them water to drink from your well which is full? {I saw a Deacon do this for years to a woman raising many kids alone}

Salvation through Christ is simple. Christ Himself stated the terms for our salvation in John 3:16. We are to come to him as children not as adults burdened down by church dogma's and laws our forefathers could not even follow.

788 posted on 06/29/2009 8:19:54 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgement? Which one say ye?)
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To: Petronski

I only recently came across a website with the Catholic Catechism. I need to spend some time reading it so I can understand what is Catholic doctrine.

It obviously is much harder to figure out what BAPTIST doctrine is, since most deny we have any...

;>)


789 posted on 06/29/2009 8:21:13 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: cva66snipe

You forgot, “Have you ever used a Bible other than King James? Then you are going to hell!”

I walked out on that one...to a LOT of hostile stares. But I was younger then, and would have made a fight of it!


790 posted on 06/29/2009 8:23:16 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mr Rogers
Unlike vatican.va, this site has a very clean interface (dark text on a white background).
791 posted on 06/29/2009 8:24:41 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: bdeaner
We know it's God's Word because the Church said so

Hahahahahahah....hohohohoho.....hehehehehe...

You mean the same Catholic Church that said it was ok to burn witches? That Catholic church? The same Catholic church that had to have a 'council' 500 years after Christ died on the Cross to decide which Books were 'permitted' and which were heresy?

That Catholic church?

Spare me...

792 posted on 06/29/2009 8:26:39 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Petronski
As long as you read the entire chapter, not just those few verses which support your pre-determined conclusion.

For example, John 6:40:

For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him (on) the last day."

Or John 6:47:

Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

Or even John 5:24:

Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes in the one who sent me has eternal life and will not come to condemnation, but has passed from death to life.

And when you consider the multiple other references where Jesus says that we are saved by faith. And the same claims made by Peter and Paul.

So either Jesus is lying because he claimed in one place that you must eat His body (taking John 6 literally) as well as faith being all that's needed (John 5 and John 6 literally)

- or -

Jesus is talking figuratively throughout about being consumed. That we must take His teachings internal to us to change our hearts.

Personally, I'll go with the interpretation where Jesus does not contradict Himself, but you can choose whichever you want. It's patently obvious you will ignore this anyway.

793 posted on 06/29/2009 8:27:13 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier
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To: PugetSoundSoldier
Yes, your dogma. Considering you refuse to acknowledge the clear explanation of bieng “born again” that Christ gave...

If you think Christ is "explaining clearly" in John 3, you can not distinguish reality from rhetoric.

Now, if you are giving your interpretation the same authority of actual scripture, we have nothing to talk about.

I am content to rely on the words of Christ in the bible, not some interpretation contrived with no other goal than undermining the orthodox Catholic teaching.

794 posted on 06/29/2009 8:27:48 PM PDT by papertyger (A difference that makes no difference is no difference)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier
Those with an open mind will accept that both interpretations are valid

But only one of them is authoritative.

795 posted on 06/29/2009 8:30:19 PM PDT by papertyger (A difference that makes no difference is no difference)
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To: Mr Rogers
You forgot, “Have you ever used a Bible other than King James? Then you are going to hell!” I walked out on that one...to a LOT of hostile stares. But I was younger then, and would have made a fight of it!

Indeed I did forget that one. One Bible I recieved as a gift means a lot. It was given to me by a friend where I once worked who was a Seventh Day Adventist. It's the NCV. The modern translations have helped many including myself study more. I just wish I could read and concentrate and put together thoughts like I once could. Now it takes me a while to do so. A lot of things I know and understand came from a window of about 5 years opened up to me where I had the time and ability to do intense reading. Now to even pray beyond a couple of complete thoughts I generally must go off alone meaning away from the house to seclusion.

796 posted on 06/29/2009 8:33:06 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgement? Which one say ye?)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier
Personally, I'll go with the interpretation where Jesus does not contradict Himself...

Congratulations! You agree with the Catholic Church.

797 posted on 06/29/2009 8:33:51 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Lurker
That Catholic church?

No, not whatever it is you're describing.

THE Catholic Church.

798 posted on 06/29/2009 8:34:56 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: papertyger
There is when, like me, the people who are guiding you are actually guiding you AWAY from the Jesus of the Bible, which is the Jesus of the Catholic Church, and toward the Jesus of "Your Own Interpretation."

Who here are you accusing of doing that? I know I've just been called a liar a few posts above, do you now call me a heretic or deceiver?

799 posted on 06/29/2009 8:36:58 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier
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To: papertyger

Yes, I’ve noticed that with some of your folks here.


800 posted on 06/29/2009 8:37:34 PM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
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